The 10 pound question - a different view

[LouisBolanos]

Many fighters are already at their limits, making the weights they fight at, and it's simply a physical impossibility for them to add another 10 pounds onto the stack of weight they already have to lose to make their own weight class.

Anyone saying "Make the weight, Cyborg" is either:

- a cretin who doesn't understand the very simple truths above

- a Ronda fanatic who is terrified of Ronda being smashed (which I don't think would happen anyway, personally)

- a Zuffa zombie who blindly buys anything that Dana ever says

There is no fourth possibility here.

There is a fourth possibility: you being a retard. Christian Bale is 2 sizes bigger than Cyborg, and he almost cut down to STRAW WEIGHT (120 lbs) for Machinist, a MOVIE ROLE. He didn't make that weight for 1 hour, he made it throughout the movie. And it wasn't even a big Blockbuster film that's going to earn him tens of millions, it was some random indie art crap with no budget and no earning potential, but he did it because he is dedicated to his craft.

Cyborg, by making 135 lbs for an hour at most, will not only fight the biggest fight of her career, get the most exposure she's ever gotten by far in her career, she will also make more money than the rest of her career combined, most likely by a wide margin, and yet she keeps giving BS excuses, and you lot are stupid enough to keep buying into them.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

You're wrong, in wrestling and judo (ironically enough) 10 lbs is huge for people at 150 pounds. That's why just about every repeat Olympic champion in wrestling in judo has stayed in the same weight division over multiple Olympics - and no one has ever suggested they go up in weight.

For instance, Satiev is often considered the greatest freestyle wrestler ever. Three Olympic gold medals, six world championship gold medals. Prime candidate for someone to go up in weight according to your reasoning, right? Except he never did, he competed at the same weight Olympics after Olympics, world championship after world championship, and no one in the wrestling world expected him to change.

And you can go through the list of repeat Olympic champions in judo and wrestling like that, and there are very few exceptions. Even the woman who won judo gold in Rousey's weight division - Masae Ueno (better than Rousey both on the ground and on her feet) won two Olympic gold and two world championship gold without going up. And is famous, no one expected her to go up in weight.

So why don't people expect wrestlers and judoka who win Olympic gold in one year to go up in weight for the next Olympics? Because 10 lbs at lighter weight divisions makes a huge difference when takedowns are in play.

Going up in weight is a boxing tradition. Ask yourself if pure boxing or pure wrestling does better in MMA, and then ask yourself which tradition a wrestler or judoka should follow - I'd say follow the tradition that is more successful in MMA. Meaning 10 lbs is a big difference, and stay in your weight.

The wrestling/judo viewpoint is pretty clear (and has been around a lot longer than MMA). If you're too big to compete at a lower weight division, you shouldn't be competing against people who can make that weight. Cyborg wanting to fight a smaller woman (and if Rousey wasn't smaller then Cyborg could make 135 as easily as she does) sounds odd - if she wants a challenge, shouldn't Cyborg be looking for bigger women to fight?

No self respecting wrestler or judoka would ask a smaller competitor to go up in weight for a match. "Hey, you won Olympic gold at 70kg last time, come up to 80 kg and wrestle me - I can't make 70kg but I want to wrestle smaller guys, so its up to you to make it to my weight division, because its unfair that I have to compete against people my own size." It sounds silly.

thank you for the long answer. of course i understand this issue but in this specific case there is a pressure on the larger fighter to move down in weight. i do not think cyborg can make that weight and still be the fighter she normally is, which seems like favoring the smaller fighter. the point is Cyborg knows the only way she is getting the shot is if she makes the weight, a shot would mean exposure and considerable fame and money if she wins. like Levi mentioned, the ball is in Cyborg's court, and all the pressure.

incidentally, i believe ronda would win at 135, 145, 155 or whatever weight these two might fight. this is precisely why i do not think the 10 pounds to be such a big deal. the garcia mackenzie is indeed a oddity, this kind of weight disparity is rarely seen in competitive fighting, especially in the sports you mentioned.

 

[Levi_]

There is a fourth possibility: you being a retard.

This.

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

you're obv not an owner of the ufc's business - cyborg isnt another tate rematch where its easy money for the ufc - they dont want that sht

 

[jamiehunter]

the discussion around these forums is that cyborg needs to go to 135. that is even less fair.

my point is why can't ronda go up to 145.

Cyborg going down to 135 isn't less fair. Also, this isn't a different view. It's the same argument that's brought up time and time again.

Ronda has zero reason to go to 145, the UFC has zero reason to have her go to 145, a fight at 145 makes zero sense, the risks of a 145 fight are astronomical and the rewards are the same as a 135 fight.

A fight at 145: IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

 

[November]

10lbs doesn't make much of a noticeable difference. Weight doesn't matter imo unless its a 20+lbs difference. I'm 200 lbs and can spar with a guy thats 215 lbs without feeling like he is so much bigger than me.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

A fight at 145: IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

not even if the ufc makes the 145 division?

cause it seems like the boys speak a lot about moving up - weidman, jones, etc. granted, they almost never do it.

with cyborg at 145 i bet there will be 135 lbs girls trying their shot at cyborg since ronda is a wall.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

But again, we could turn this statement around- "Bitching for ten pounds is why Cyborg shouldn't even be considered the Royce Gracie of MMA"

People who think the ball is in Cyborg's court, and that it will somehow lesson Ronda's standing or legacy to not fight Cyborg are delusional. No one cares about Cyborg in the general public, that is only the relatively tiny group of hardcore fans.

Ronda will move on being considered the greatest, be rich and famous, make movies, and enjoy life without EVER fighting Cyborg. Cyborg will have a meager bank account and little fame, legacy or recognition without Ronda. Cyborg is the one who needs to get on the stick.

Cyborg isn't the one who claim she can beat anyone in the world under the right circumstances. Also moving up to a weight that you've already fought at is incredibly easier than going down.

Rousey is the big star, she decides everything. She just has to say "let's do it at 145" and it will happen, even if there is no 145 division in the UFC. Cyborg's biggest paycheck ever is against Rousey, time doesn't give her any new leverage and the call-outs and trash talk won't change anything.

If she could fight at 135, she'd already have done it because I can't imagine that her team is stupid enough to believe that the UFC cares enough about that fight to force Ronda to move-up.

 

[jamiehunter]

It's great the way you open the discussion by declaring all disagreement with your viewpoint requiring someone to be stupid, stupid and a Dana worshipper or someone who is outright lying to protect the image of a cowardly Ronda Rousey.

Here are some points I hope you'll find rational:
1- Cyborg has agreed to fight at 135lbs.
2- Cyborg's nutritionist said that Cyborg recently contacted him about getting serious about making 135lbs and he's confident they can do it.
3- Cyborg fought at 145lbs while juiced to the gills on steroids. She has the facial structure, voice and muscularity of a man on steroids. It's reasonably to postulate that if she gets off the juice she can lose at least 5lbs.
4- Cyborg has repeatedly agreed to fight at 140lbs. So the difference we're actually talking about is 5lbs. In combination with more cardio, less strength training and less food it's completely possible for her to lose a whopping 5lbs.
5- The real question you should be asking yourself is why Cyborg has chosen to avoid a million dollar payday (with PPV points) when all she has to do is lose 5 f'ing pounds. You're saying a muscle-bound person on steroids can't lose 5lbs when they get clean and change their training regimen??

The fight's going to eventually happen anyway. Given the recent Holm announcement I suspect they're going to try to set up a Cyborg vs. Tate fight. Tate made the offer in social media recently saying she'd take the fight at 140. This gives Cyborg a chance to cut within 5lbs of her ultimate goal.

I think you'll find discussion more fulfilling when you consider that people who disagree with you may have some decent points to make.

I agree with all this except Miesha saying she'd take the fight at 140 on social media. Miesha answered a fan question that she would fight Cyborg at 140 if the UFC told her to do so. She never challenged Cyborg on social media. She actually did the exact opposite and flat out said that her answering the question was in no way a challenge to Cyborg.

 

[jamiehunter]

not even if the ufc makes the 145 division?

cause it seems like the boys speak a lot about moving up - weidman, jones, etc. granted, they almost never do it.

with cyborg at 145 i bet there will be 135 lbs girls trying their shot at cyborg since ronda is a wall.

Sorry I should be more specific.

The UFC is: NOT GOING TO MAKE A 145 DIVISION and a fight at 145 is: NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

 

[tombombadil]

There is a fourth possibility: you being a retard. Christian Bale is 2 sizes bigger than Cyborg, and he almost cut down to STRAW WEIGHT (120 lbs) for Machinist, a MOVIE ROLE. He didn't make that weight for 1 hour, he made it throughout the movie. And it wasn't even a big Blockbuster film that's going to earn him tens of millions, it was some random indie art crap with no budget and no earning potential, but he did it because he is dedicated to his craft.

Cyborg, by making 135 lbs for an hour at most, will not only fight the biggest fight of her career, get the most exposure she's ever gotten by far in her career, she will also make more money than the rest of her career combined, most likely by a wide margin, and yet she keeps giving BS excuses, and you lot are stupid enough to keep buying into them.

Haha, Christian Bale. He was probably at his physical best, too.

Why not bring Bobby Sands and Mahatma Gandhi as reasons why its no big deal for Cyborg to get there, if she just wants to.

Fuck, I've read it all, now.

 

[IWANTTOTRAINUFC]

not even if the ufc makes the 145 division?

cause it seems like the boys speak a lot about moving up - weidman, jones, etc. granted, they almost never do it.

with cyborg at 145 i bet there will be 135 lbs girls trying their shot at cyborg since ronda is a wall.

So, overlooking the fact that 135 is a pretty shallow division. You want to create a 145 division where the talent is even more shallow with the hopes that the ones from the lesser weight class go up in weight?

Bottom line there is no 145. Remember that time Mighty mouse was overpowered by the bigger fighter at 135? That's what Cyborg would do to all the 135ers that moved up.

If Cyborg wants to fight Rousey, she can easily change up her training and diet to lose those 10 lbs.

 

[A Pennysworth]

If you can't make weight for a championship that has a set limit. The guess your not going to be fighting for that title. The Ufc want to have a serious contender, not some one and done super fight.

 

[LouisBolanos]

Haha, Christian Bale. He was probably at his physical best, too.

Why not bring Bobby Sands and Mahatma Gandhi as reasons why its no big deal for Cyborg to get there, if she just wants to.

Fuck, I've read it all, now.

Read much before you respond?

Who says Cyborg is at her physical best at 135 lbs? Who said it's "no big deal" Do you even know how to argue? My response was to the post claiming that Cyborg making weight is "a physical impossibility", which is clearly complete and utter bullshit. If 6'0" Christian Bale can make 120lbs for the entirety of an indie role and immediately balloon back up to 200 lbs and take on a physical role like Batman, then Cyborg sure as hell can make 135 lbs, and you'd have to be a complete retard to claim that as a physical impossibility. What is your bullshit excuse again?

The whole point of forcing Cyborg down to 135 lbs is to weaken her and maximize Rousey's chance of success. Why? Because Rousey can. Where else is Cyborg going to make anywhere close to millions fighting someone? Where else is Cyborg going to headline a 1.5+ million PPV card? Nowhere? Then deal with it.

 

[Docile]

the discussion around these forums is that cyborg needs to go to 135. that is even less fair.

my point is why can't ronda go up to 145.

Oh was that your question? You phrased it funny.

The reason the fight doesn't happen @ 145 is because then they need to add that division. That weight only has cyborg, nobody else seems to even be fighting full-time. Adding a division when the two they have already struggle to produce solid top tens is just silly.

 

[Malthian]

I wonder if the TS would make the same argument if Rousey offered a 150 or 155 pound fight with SAME DAY weigh in? That's what Rousey was fighting at in Judo. Same day weigh in, less than a handful of hours to rehydrate if she had to make a cut.

Rousey would do 150 or 155 same day weigh in without hesitation because she already walks around at that weight. That's Rousey coming up in weight, right? Wouldy Cyborg fans be fine with that arrangement?

Or would Cyborg and her fans expect her to come up to 165 or 170 for a same day weigh in fight?

This whole "Rousey goes up 5 pounds is fair" is beyond stupid. Rousey is cutting HALF the weight that Cyborg cuts to make 140.

175-140 = 35 pounds
155-140 = 15 pounds

You want to see how much difference day before and same day weight cuts make?

Here's Rousey vs Charmaine Tweet fighting at 150....



Here's Cyborg vs Tweet fighting at 145



Do you notice the size difference when you're talking cutting vs walk around weight? And you want Rousey to give up even MORE weight to Cyborg's advantage?

What exactly does Rousey get for giving up an even bigger weight advantage? Cyborg's not a draw, or a UFC champ, or has a title on the line that Rousey can actually hold, nor would it count as a title defense in terms of her record.

Seriously, people need to actually understand the difference between walk around and weight cutting. If you actually think Rousey is a natural 145er, then you have zero understanding of MMA.

 

[Kelman]

It's great the way you open the discussion by declaring all disagreement with your viewpoint requiring someone to be stupid, stupid and a Dana worshipper or someone who is outright lying to protect the image of a cowardly Ronda Rousey.

Here are some points I hope you'll find rational:
1- Cyborg has agreed to fight at 135lbs.
2- Cyborg's nutritionist said that Cyborg recently contacted him about getting serious about making 135lbs and he's confident they can do it.
3- Cyborg fought at 145lbs while juiced to the gills on steroids. She has the facial structure, voice and muscularity of a man on steroids. It's reasonably to postulate that if she gets off the juice she can lose at least 5lbs.
4- Cyborg has repeatedly agreed to fight at 140lbs. So the difference we're actually talking about is 5lbs. In combination with more cardio, less strength training and less food it's completely possible for her to lose a whopping 5lbs.
5- The real question you should be asking yourself is why Cyborg has chosen to avoid a million dollar payday (with PPV points) when all she has to do is lose 5 f'ing pounds. You're saying a muscle-bound person on steroids can't lose 5lbs when they get clean and change their training regimen??

The fight's going to eventually happen anyway. Given the recent Holm announcement I suspect they're going to try to set up a Cyborg vs. Tate fight. Tate made the offer in social media recently saying she'd take the fight at 140. This gives Cyborg a chance to cut within 5lbs of her ultimate goal.

I think you'll find discussion more fulfilling when you consider that people who disagree with you may have some decent points to make.

I didn't read any of this beyond the first line or two, as Cyborg making 135 is a physical impossibility, therefore anything and everything you say is of no value.

Believe me people, this fight cannot and will not happen at 135. There's nothing else to say except pointless bluster.

 

[Malthian]

I didn't read any of this beyond the first line or two, as Cyborg making 135 is a physical impossibility, therefore anything and everything you say is of no value.

Believe me people, this fight cannot and will not happen at 135. There's nothing else to say except pointless bluster.

Cyborg, and her manager, and her nutritionists, and Tito ALL said she can make 135.

So what are you basing your disagreement on?

 

[georgejjr]

thank you for the long answer. of course i understand this issue but in this specific case there is a pressure on the larger fighter to move down in weight. i do not think cyborg can make that weight and still be the fighter she normally is, which seems like favoring the smaller fighter. the point is Cyborg knows the only way she is getting the shot is if she makes the weight, a shot would mean exposure and considerable fame and money if she wins. like Levi mentioned, the ball is in Cyborg's court, and all the pressure.

incidentally, i believe ronda would win at 135, 145, 155 or whatever weight these two might fight. this is precisely why i do not think the 10 pounds to be such a big deal. the garcia mackenzie is indeed a oddity, this kind of weight disparity is rarely seen in competitive fighting, especially in the sports you mentioned.

I agree its not fair for Cyborg to have to drop weight. Neither is it fair for Rousey to gain weight. Sometimes things really are zero-sum, and there's no fair solution.

Which is probably why this fight hasn't happened, and may not happen - there's no solution which doesn't give an advantage to one or the other, and neither feels beholden enough to the other to sacrifice for the other's behalf.

I think Rousey and Cyborg are both very good, which is why 10 lbs is a big deal. Again, if a super dominant, greatest of all time wrestler like Satiev stayed in the same weight division for three Olympics in a row because of roughly 10-15 pounds, how is it strange that Cyborg and Rousey would also hesitate to give up 10 pounds (either gaining or losing)? Neither are within a million miles of Satiev's level (technically or physically), so if he wouldn't do it, easy to understand why they wouldn't.

As for the UFC creating a 145 pound division for Cyborg (some folks have mentioned it), they wouldn't create a superheavy weight division for Lesnar, making him cut 30-40 pounds to fight under 265. If they wouldn't create a division for their biggest draw ever, why would they do it for someone with a tiny following like Cyborg?

My theory: the two will fight after both have left their prime and started losing; that fight is money in the bank for both of them, like Pac-Mayweather was. In the meantime both will be happy to make money fighting others.

 

[Kelman]

Oh they can't physically do it? Christian Bale (6'0") went below 120 lbs for Machinist. That's the dedication of an actor. If the 135 lbs champion is 10x the star Aldo is, if fighting him means getting paid more than the rest of your career combined, then he absolutely should make that weight.

Ah OK, so you're a complete fucking idiot. Cool.

Physical impossibility = not important in the face of such sterling evidence as the hearsay of a movie actor in a non-sporting context.

Embarrassing.