That NY lawyer? Now faces fitness complaint before NYBar lodged by (former undocumented)Congressman

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

Dude's about to get 25000 people petition for him to get disbarred lol what a plum

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

There are plenty of racist Trump supporters. I'm not blind.

There, feel better?

I feel good for helping you acknowledge your problem. I'm proud that you were able to type that, you're on your road to recovery now. I'll be here for you bro!

 

[panamaican]

I don't think I'd support professionally disciplining this lunatic for espousing inane and bigoted remarks. That's an extremely slippery slope; same with the Hale case. Too arbitrary.

He did everyone a favor and will likely lose business (if he had any) and be shunned by anyone who isn't as crazy as he is.

He won't lose business and he won't be shunned because 90% of the people aren't going to know about this when they're hiring a lawyer. But I do think that disciplining him is necessary although anything that suspends his license is too much.

At the very least, threatening to call ICE on people for speaking Spanish is discriminatory and a statement about potential abuse of process. Coupled with the other allegation and his fitness to practice should absolutely be questioned. We have all sorts of disciplinary tools for lawyers who start going off the rails.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

Being a racist and spouting vile racist shit is one thing. Verbally accosting random strangers in public places for no other reason other than that they look or sound foreign to him is entirely another.

It's not like he posted some racist shit on Facebook. The guy is actually initiating shouting matches in public places with strangers for no other reason other than racism.

And consider the fact that the three completely separate and unrelated incidents that we know about are just the ones that got caught on video. Even in this day and age the average piece of shit racist can go all their lives without one of their public rants being caught on video. This guy has three independent video-recorded incidents in a space of a couple of years.

That tells me that there probably are a shit ton of incidents with this guy that never got filmed.

What if an attorney was shouting vile things at women entering an abortion clinic? Or an attorney protesting a military funeral ala westboro church?

All are instances of constitutionally protected speech. Having the state bar or disciplinary board choose which offensive speech precludes one from taking the bar and/or being subject to professional discipline is an extremely slippery slope. It rubs me the wrong way even if I abhor and find completely repugnant that type of behavior.

 

[Quequeg]

Nobody is defending this guy? I figured one Trumpists here would, what pleasant surprise.

 

[Quequeg]

The guy exercised his 1st amendment rights, now he is dealing with the consequences, as he should.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

He won't lose business and he won't be shunned because 90% of the people aren't going to know about this when they're hiring a lawyer. But I do think that disciplining him is necessary although anything that suspends his license is too much.

At the very least, threatening to call ICE on people for speaking Spanish is discriminatory and a statement about potential abuse of process. Coupled with the other allegation and his fitness to practice should absolutely be questioned. We have all sorts of disciplinary tools for lawyers who start going off the rails.

I question how engaging in legally protected speech, even if it's offensive, should affect one's fitness to practice. If an attorney participated in a legal Klan march, should he/she be subject to professional discipline? Westboro protest? Abortion clinic? Etc....

I have no pity for this POS, but I have a problem with subjecting someone to professional discipline, or even preventing them from taking the bar, for engaging in protected speech.

If he was asked to leave the private property and refused to do so, he could be charged with trespassing and be disciplined for that.

 

[Lord Coke]

The guy exercised his 1st amendment rights, now he is dealing with the consequences, as he should.

That's fine as to all the Mexican people that are following him The question is should the Bar which is a branch of the government discipline him over arguably protected speech.

 

[Quequeg]

That's fine as to all the Mexican people that are following him The question is should the Bar which is a branch of the government discipline him over arguably protected speech.

I really don't know whether he should be disbarred, is there a morality clause or something? He fully deserves all the shaming he is getting.

 

[panamaican]

I question how engaging in legally protected speech, even if it's offensive, should affect one's fitness to practice. If an attorney participated in a legal Klan march, should he/she be subject to professional discipline? Westboro protest? Abortion clinic? Etc....

I have no pity for this POS, but I have a problem with subjecting someone to professional discipline, or even preventing them from taking the bar, for engaging in protected speech.

If he was asked to leave the private property and refused to do so, he could be charged with trespassing and be disciplined for that.

The speech isn't the issue. It's the alleged intent to invoke government action over other people's speech that is. Going to a Klan march, Westboro protest or abortion clinic protest doesn't involve government action.

As lawyers, we have a higher standard to adhere to. And this is allegedly a 2nd instance with this guy.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

The speech isn't the issue. It's the alleged intent to invoke government action over other people's speech that is. Going to a Klan march, Westboro protest or abortion clinic protest doesn't involve government action.

As lawyers, we have a higher standard to adhere to. And this is allegedly a 2nd instance with this guy.

The speech is definitely a large part of it. You're saying if he had made the same public diatribe sans the part about calling ICE (who would have laughed at his baseless assertions) you'd agree with me?

If so, I think you're in the minority as well.

 

[JadeOwl]

What if an attorney was shouting vile things at women entering an abortion clinic? Or an attorney protesting a military funeral ala westboro church?

Absolutely. Discipline those guys too.

All are instances of constitutionally protected speech. Having the state bar or disciplinary board choose which offensive speech precludes one from taking the bar and/or being subject to professional discipline is an extremely slippery slope. It rubs me the wrong way even if I abhor and find completely repugnant that type of behavior.

Is the bar a government entity? Unethical behavior is unethical behavior.

 

[Lord Coke]

The speech isn't the issue. It's the alleged intent to invoke government action over other people's speech that is. Going to a Klan march, Westboro protest or abortion clinic protest doesn't involve government action.

As lawyers, we have a higher standard to adhere to. And this is allegedly a 2nd instance with this guy.

What is the line there? What if he threatened to call ICE because he reasonably believed the workers were illegal? While I would not threaten someone with calling ice like this guy did,
I personally would absolutely call ICE if I came upon a business that I had reason to believe had large amounts of undocumented workers. If the Bar disciplined me for that I would have a field day with them in federal court.

 

[panamaican]

The speech is definitely a large part of it. You're saying if he had made the same public diatribe sans the part about calling ICE (who would have laughed at his baseless assertions) you'd agree with me?

If so, I think you're in the minority as well.

On the single statement, yes I'd agree with you. On the overall conduct with the multiple instances, no I'd still think he needs a fitness evaluation.

Being a lawyer isn't a right. None of us are entitled to practice law just because we pass the bar exam. There is a character component.

 

[JadeOwl]

What is the line there? What if he threatened to call ICE because he reasonably believed the workers were illegal?
I personally would absolutely call ICE if I came upon a business that I had reason to believe had large amounts of undocumented workers. If the Bar disciplined me for that I would have a field day with them in federal court.

But that clearly wasn't the case here. He threatened to call ICE and workers and patrons for no other reason other than that they spoke Spanish around him, which is not reasonable by any mean, shape or size.

 

[panamaican]

What is the line there? What if he threatened to call ICE because he reasonably believed the workers were illegal?
I personally would absolutely call ICE if I came upon a business that I had reason to believe had large amounts of undocumented workers. If the Bar disciplined me for that I would have a field day with them in federal court.

If he reasonably believed they were illegal for reasons other than speaking in Spanish then he should have called ICE. But he didn't.

He also should not have been a frequent customer of that establishment...but he was.

So, while in a fictional scenario where the facts are on his side, of course he would be defensible. But we have a real life scenario where the facts are not his side.

And you'd lose in federal court since character is a component of your privilege to practice law in almost every state. You have no right to practice and you're not entitled to be admitted to the bar.

 

[Lord Coke]

If he reasonably believed they were illegal for reasons other than speaking in Spanish then he should have called ICE. But he didn't.

He also should not have been a frequent customer of that establishment...but he was.

So, while in a fictional scenario where the facts are on his side, of course he would be defensible. But we have a real life scenario where the facts are not his side.

And you'd lose in federal court since character is a component of your privilege to practice law in almost every state. You have no right to practice and you're not entitled to be admitted to the bar.

That is not true. You have a protected property interest in your license. While the Bar can discipline you it can't do so in a arbitrary or capricious manner. The standard is similar to APA review. If the Bar wants to promulgate guidelines that say I can't assist law enforcement that would raise a whole other range of due process issues.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

Absolutely. Discipline those guys too.



Is the bar a government entity? Unethical behavior is unethical behavior.

I can't say for every state, but in my state discipline is handled by the state SC.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Yeah, he's Jewish. There's video of him calling other Jewish people "fake Jews" for not supporting Milo, while with a band of MAGA's chanting for Milo.

Manhattan lawyers aren't down with Milo and they're certainly not on the streets screaming for him. He should be doing Ben Shapiro or Stephen Miller-level work. High brow bigotry.

 

[panamaican]

That is not true. You have a protected property interest in your license. While the Bar can discipline you it can't do so in a arbitrary or capricious manner. The standard is similar to APA review. If the Bar wants to promulgate guidelines that say I can't assist law enforcement that would raise a whole other range of due process issues.

There's nothing arbitrary or capricious here. You have a recorded instance of a lawyer threatening individuals with government action for having a conversation in a foreign language.

As a lawyer, his formal training teaches him that simply speaking a foreign language doesn't rise to the level of necessitating an ICE investigation. He also knows that if he believes a crime is being committed (such as the employment of illegal aliens) he should stop participating in that crime...meaning stop eating there.

So, it's very clear that this lawyer is either disregarding a known crime or running around and threatening people for no justifiable reason, ie harassment.

Looking into why he's doing those things isn't arbitrary since you have 2 potential ethics issues to discuss and it's not capricious since ethics issues are the sort of things disciplinary boards investigate.

Your interest in your license doesn't override the Bar's interest in protecting the reputation of the industry from bad actors.