Texas vs US Appeals court. war against women

Blood Python said:
Good. Glad to support Governor Greg Abbott.

Even living in Austin, I've seen tremendous support for Abbott especially on this issue.
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Also living in Austin, I've seen much more condemnation for Abbott and almost exclusively because of this issue.
 
IIIIIIII said:
i used to be super-liberal about this issue and be all for a woman's right to abort. and if it comes down to it, i still feel that way.

the thing that gets me, is the people who say that it's not murder. it IS murder. just because you have the law on your side to end a life, does not mean that you're not killing a living thing. so women can abort all they want. fine. just don't tell me that you're some kind of moral beacon for humanity. you are a murderer. and you have to live with that.
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Yea I'm all for abortion and I would do it myself if I had to. Thankfully I've never had to do it. With that said I agree completely that it is murder.
 
2DUM2TAP said:
I will take responsibility for it.... once it becomes a child. When will I have to answer for this, and what repercussions are you talking about.
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A lot of women that have abortions suffer depression over it because they killed their baby. It usually happens when their second baby is born. They are joyful for their second baby but in the back of their mind they wonder what their first baby would have looked like, been like etc.
 
SpidermanISGOAT said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-...seen-facing-long-odds-in-fight-on-limits.html

Texas under the bigot greg abbot is gung ho to make an already hard choice for women less easy and to shame them. Lets not forget this new governor hates gays to add to his close mindedness.
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Lets at least be completely truthful about the "war" on women.

1 side wants to allow women to receive medical procedures by doctors without admitting privileges, in buildings that don't meet state regulations for medical facilities and are claiming to be the ones looking out for women's health.

Odd that these articles never directly state that what the pro-choice crowd is asking for is exemptions to the standards of medicine that apply to every other medical procedure in the state.


Btw, from your link: U.S. Circuit Judges Jennifer Walker Elrod and Catharina Haynes participated in a separate three-judge panel that in March unanimously reinstated Texas
 
ripskater said:
A lot of women that have abortions suffer depression over it because they killed their baby. It usually happens when their second baby is born. They are joyful for their second baby but in the back of their mind they wonder what their first baby would have looked like, be like etc.
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Even though we are polar opposites on most things, I appreciate your convictions. That said, you tend to talk about people's mental state as though you know it to be fact. You talk about the self deprecating nature of gays and the depression of "a lot" of women, when in actuality, you have no clue what you're talking about. You read a psychiatrist talk about what they've heard, but the truth of it is, you have no idea what post abortion mothers feel. You have no idea what it's like to be gay and if there is self hatred there or not.

If you want to argue your point, try not to do it with all-encompassing, made up statements.
 
IIIIIIII said:
i used to be super-liberal about this issue and be all for a woman's right to abort. and if it comes down to it, i still feel that way.

the thing that gets me, is the people who say that it's not murder. it IS murder. just because you have the law on your side to end a life, does not mean that you're not killing a living thing. so women can abort all they want. fine. just don't tell me that you're some kind of moral beacon for humanity. you are a murderer. and you have to live with that.
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This.

We call it terminating and aborting while using terms like fetus and zygote to help people feel better about it.
 
KnockoutsGalore said:
Even though we are polar opposites on most things, I appreciate your convictions. That said, you tend to talk about people's mental state as though you know it to be fact. You talk about the self deprecating nature of gays and the depression of "a lot" of women, when in actuality, you have no clue what you're talking about. You read a psychiatrist talk about what they've heard, but the truth of it is, you have no idea what post abortion mothers feel. You have no idea what it's like to be gay and if there is self hatred there or not.

If you want to argue your point, try not to do it with all-encompassing, made up statements.
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Is it really a question?

Temporary feelings of relief are frequently followed by a period psychiatrists identify as emotional "paralysis," or post-abortion "numbness."18 Like shell-shocked soldiers, these post-abortion women are unable to express or even feel their own emotions. Their focus is primarily on having survived the ordeal, and they are at least temporarily out of touch with their feelings. Studies within the first few weeks after the abortion have found that between 40 and 60 percent of women questioned report negative reactions.3,23,35 Within 8 weeks after their abortions, 55% expressed guilt, 44% complained of nervous disorders, 36% had experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor.3

In one study of 500 post-abortion women, researchers found that 50 percent expressed negative feelings, and up to 10 percent were classified as having developed "serious psychiatric complications."10 Thirty to fifty percent of post-abortion women report experiencing sexual dysfunctions, of both short and long duration, beginning immediately after their abortions

http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/studentsforlife/cost.html

A study of the medical records of 56,741 California medicaid patients revealed that women who had abortions were 160 percent more likely than delivering women to be hospitalized for psychiatric treatment in the first 90 days following abortion or delivery. Rates of psychiatric treatment remained significantly higher for at least four years

http://afterabortion.org/2011/abort...chological-complications-related-to-abortion/
 
PainIsLIfe said:
Is it really a question?

Temporary feelings of relief are frequently followed by a period psychiatrists identify as emotional "paralysis," or post-abortion "numbness."18 Like shell-shocked soldiers, these post-abortion women are unable to express or even feel their own emotions. Their focus is primarily on having survived the ordeal, and they are at least temporarily out of touch with their feelings. Studies within the first few weeks after the abortion have found that between 40 and 60 percent of women questioned report negative reactions.3,23,35 Within 8 weeks after their abortions, 55% expressed guilt, 44% complained of nervous disorders, 36% had experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor.3

In one study of 500 post-abortion women, researchers found that 50 percent expressed negative feelings, and up to 10 percent were classified as having developed "serious psychiatric complications."10 Thirty to fifty percent of post-abortion women report experiencing sexual dysfunctions, of both short and long duration, beginning immediately after their abortions

http://www.colorado.edu/studentgroups/studentsforlife/cost.html

A study of the medical records of 56,741 California medicaid patients revealed that women who had abortions were 160 percent more likely than delivering women to be hospitalized for psychiatric treatment in the first 90 days following abortion or delivery. Rates of psychiatric treatment remained significantly higher for at least four years

http://afterabortion.org/2011/abort...chological-complications-related-to-abortion/
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You can find similar studies about just about any negative life changing event. You know how many people report sleep disturbances, depression and end up on prescribed medication after they've lost a job, gotten divorced or even done something as simple as totaled a car?

I know "lots" of depressed people who have never had an abortion and I know "lots" of couples who have had an abortion that have never faced a bout of depression and have gone on to lead happy, healthy families.

And my point to the post you quoted (which was meant for someone other than you) was not to discredit that some women end up depressed or guilt-ridden, but was pointing to ripskater's tendency to make blanket statements with very little empirical evidence to back it up. I thank you for your diligence in supporting his statements with hard facts, but I still find it to be a less than stellar argument against depression.

How many women have unwanted babies that they can't care for and end up depressed, and the children end up depressed and everyone ends up on medication? Of the 55% of women who expressed guilt at aborting their baby, how many would've held resentment towards a child they didn't want? Of the 11% that were prescribed medication, how many of them would've ended up on it anyway with the "undue" (I used that word loosely, but intentionally) stress of having a child when they weren't prepared for it?
My point is, in this instance, even the "hard" evidence is questionable.
 
But Rip simply said "A LOT" of women. Granted that's not an exact #, but he didn't say most, half. or anything similar and I believe the studies that we do have (whether you agree with them or not) support his claim.
 
Like A Bas said:
Have to wonder about the mentality of people who shut down all the abortion clinics and then bitch about welfare children.
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THIS is my single biggest pet peeve. I'm not even rigidly pro-choice: I recognize that it is an issue of some gray area where I can earnestly respect those who hold opinions opposite of mine. But if you're pro-life and then want to slash welfare, you're a fucking moron or a really bad person.
 
Why don't these women just not have sex if they don't want to get pregnant? I mean that's the advice men are told when they bring up worries about impregnating a woman; don't have sex then.
 
SpidermanISGOAT said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-...seen-facing-long-odds-in-fight-on-limits.html

Texas under the bigot greg abbot is gung ho to make an already hard choice for women less easy and to shame them. Lets not forget this new governor hates gays to add to his close mindedness.
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First, how is it shaming them?
Second, the new law is just asking these abortion clinics to have the same standards as an out patient surgical clinic. This is to protect the women's health. How is this anti women?
Also, a little over half of the aborted fetuses are female so it is really protecting women.
 
Ocean Chief said:
Why don't these women just not have sex if they don't want to get pregnant? I mean that's the advice men are told when they bring up worries about impregnating a woman; don't have sex then.
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Nah... i was told to just do anal instead.
 
PainIsLIfe said:
But Rip simply said "A LOT" of women. Granted that's not an exact #, but he didn't say most, half. or anything similar and I believe the studies that we do have (whether you agree with them or not) support his claim.
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Thanks for posting those.
 
Dochter said:
I don't support efforts in conservative states to limit abortion access for a whole myriad of reasons. In fact I favor increased access to abortion and, more importantly, a variety of birth control options.

However, I don't think it is correct to imply (if you meant to) that arguments against abortion are necessarily religiously motivated. We really don't have an objective scientific definition of when human life, consciousness, whatever criteria begins. Thus the conservative stance in terms of protecting human life would be to view life as starting at fertilization and therefore banning even those drugs that prevent implantation while the conservative stance in terms of protecting individual autonomy would be to allow abortion up to birth. Neither of those stances is appropriate given that we don't really have objective criteria. I err on the side of individual autonomy but there are areligious arguments to be made on the other side too.
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I wasn't implying that an argument against abortion can't be made by nonreligious people, but the movement against women and gays is a religious movement.
 
Ocean Chief said:
Why don't these women just not have sex if they don't want to get pregnant? I mean that's the advice men are told when they bring up worries about impregnating a woman; don't have sex then.
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How well does that advice work?
Despite the "best" efforts of social conservatives, abstinence focused education doesn't work.
 
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