Teep/ front knee kick debate.

[GBcrazy]

I saw ONE guy get injured by this in a kickboxing match. I doubt it is as bad as people think, way less potential damage than a knee in the face

 

[screaminleeman]

I was on twitter for saturdays nights card, and i was complaining repeatedly about the front kicks.

i hate them, and it says a lot about Holly's character.

Front stomp to the knee should be outlawed tbh

And I thank you also for being honest. That is all I am asking/ calling for in this post.

Maybe with enough "admissions" like this, the WMMA GOAT contender could be considered one of the dirtiest MMA fighters in history.

While I favor them, all I ask for is consistency. UBER dislike any and all fighters employing this technique, or don't dislike ANY of them for using the technique.

It is black and white, with no grey area. What is good for the goose is good for the gander!

 

[shaffmeister]

A kneebar give you time to tap. It isn't the same.

That's true. With a heel hook though you really don't have time to tap in mma and a heel hook shreds every ligament in your knee. I understand your point though for sure

 

[sapporo ichiban]

You will probably see this technique used alot in muay thai fights. Is normal.

 

[sapporo ichiban]

And I thank you also for being honest. That is all I am asking/ calling for in this post.

Maybe with enough "admissions" like this, the WMMA GOAT contender could be considered one of the dirtiest MMA fighters in history.

While I favor them, all I ask for is consistency. UBER dislike any and all fighters employing this technique, or don't dislike ANY of them for using the technique.

It is black and white, with no grey area. What is good for the goose is good for the gander!

This is a technique that is used by alot of fighters in a few different styles. A cut kick to the knee is not a big issue to people yet a straight kick is? Fighters have their knees bent in their fighting stance so it looks alot worse than it is. I have recieved many of these kicks myself and mostly they serve to break up your timing in your footwork and stop your advance. Damage is possible from any variety of kick thrown to that area.

People dislike Jones so they will complain about anything they can. To be fair its not like they just picked his name out of a hat, he has given people plenty to dislike.

There is nothing wrong with this technique.

 

[kingskot]

1) It's typically a side kick or a stomp, not a teep or front kick.

2) Can anybody post a link of somebody actually getting hurt from this technique? I've never seen it, although I can think of several cases of submissions (including leg locks) causing serious damage. I say leave it legal.

3) I agree there's a double standard, fighters who are more hated (e.g., Jones) are going to get more crap. That's just how fans/people work.

 

[aerius]

The only thing that surprises me is how long it took for fighters to start using push kicks to the knee in MMA. Vera vs. Jardine was the first time I remember seeing it in the UFC, Anderson Silva used it against Maia and possibly Leites as well (I'm not watching that snoozefest again to confirm anything), then around 4-5 years ago several Jackson-Wink fighters started using it.

As far as I'm concerned, knee kick away, if fighters can't defend it, it's their goddamn problem. It's a 100% legal strike and it's not like it's some magic kill shot that ends careers, Gustafsson and Shevchenko have both shown how to effectively avoid and counter the knee stomp. Other fighters such as Rampage need to stop crying and put in some gym time.

 

[Paradigm]

I was on twitter for saturdays nights card, and i was complaining repeatedly about the front kicks.

i hate them, and it says a lot about Holly's character.

Front stomp to the knee should be outlawed tbh

Not this shit again. There was a huge thread by Himbob on this and nobody could show any career ending effects from this kick.

Shit is legal and you think it says something about Holly's character...what does that say about you?

 

[screaminleeman]

This is a technique that is used by alot of fighters in a few different styles. A cut kick to the knee is not a big issue to people yet a straight kick is? Fighters have their knees bent in their fighting stance so it looks alot worse than it is. I have recieved many of these kicks myself and mostly they serve to break up your timing in your footwork and stop your advance. Damage is possible from any variety of kick thrown to that area.

People dislike Jones so they will complain about anything they can. To be fair its not like they just picked his name out of a hat, he has given people plenty to dislike.

There is nothing wrong with this technique.

Agreed. I never heard any combat sport fan attempt to make a case that Andy Hug (R.I.P.) was a dirty fighter and was a master of various knee attacks in kickboxing. Even as an admitted fan of JBJ (at least until the current PED case plays itself out to completion) I have zero issue with MMA fans turning against Jon for some of his actions outside of the Octagon.

He has indeed given these fans legitimate reason to dislike him professionally. I will also be the first to stick to my guns on the PED stance I take, and FIRE Jon PERMANENTLY as a fighter that I am a fan of and root for him to get his "cumupins" against his future combatants should he prove he was UNWORTHY of my loyal support.

I damn well am not going to flip on my PED stance because any number of my former favorite fighters ARE blatant cheaters!

 

[Lanx]

Ppl find anything to grasp on to fuck over Jones.

This isn't the first time Holly has done the oblique kick anyway.

No one said shit when she did it to Ronda, cuz well, no one likes Ronda, so fuck her knee that she had to get surgery on.

No one said shit, cuz those kicks made Ronda so immobile Holly was able able to move away from a slow blob inching forward

 

[clumseygenius]

Thank you. There is no absolute right or wrong answer here. You at least have the jewel(s) to admit that you still hold to your opinion regardless of the fighter that employs the technique. That is most excellent! This is where the vast majority of those that were in this side of the argument fail.

Most seem to have "come around" and started warming to the technique as more fan firendly fighters adopted it.

Yeah, I'm still here and cheers. I reckon it's down to a combination of the fact that the hatred on Jon was/is immense and the fact that people have grown somewhat accustomed to it. I never will really, I tend to jerk when it connects tbh.

 

[Paradigm]

I saw ONE guy get injured by this in a kickboxing match. I doubt it is as bad as people think, way less potential damage than a knee in the face

Was it Miguel Angel Torres? If so, he fought an MMA fight a couple months later so it couldn't have been that serious of an injury:

 

[clumseygenius]

Ppl find anything to grasp on to fuck over Jones.

This isn't the first time Holly has done the oblique kick anyway.

No one said shit when she did it to Ronda, cuz well, no one likes Ronda, so fuck her knee that she had to get surgery on.




No one said shit, cuz those kicks made Ronda so immobile Holly was able able to move away from a slow blob inching forward

This is the exact point @screaminleeman is making and you provided us with an excellent post backing it up. Should be merged with OP imo.

Jones doing it: MUTHERFUCKER!!!! BS'CHEAPASS KICKS ZOMG!!!!

Holm on RR: Brilliant strat....

 

[dim_]

Not this shit again. There was a huge thread by Himbob on this and nobody could show any career ending effects from this kick.

Shit is legal and you think it says something about Holly's character...what does that say about you?

I think with any MMA strike there is clearly aim to damage the opponent, I think with that particular strike, to the knee, there is a clear intent to do serious and potentially lasting damage to the opponent.

I think there are some fighters who would never dream of using that strike, in fact, if you listen to Joanna J's interview last week, she said she would never use that strike, and never train that strike herself...

There are some fighters that would, I think that says something about them.


But its not just Sherdoggers, Joanna Champion herself at the Q&A last week said she wouldnt do it.

 

[screaminleeman]

Yeah, I'm still here and cheers. I reckon it's down to a combination of the fact that the hatred on Jon was/is immense and the fact that people have grown somewhat accustomed to it. I never will really, I tend to jerk when it connects tbh.

Please do not watch any old Andy Hug fights. I will admit to cringing in one K-1 Mike Bernardo (R.I.P.) fight where this technique blew his knee out (KO!). Ouch.

I can EASILY name half a dozen checked leg kicks that made me cringe 100x worse than this from leg injuries.

Watching the Pancrase fight where a fighter with shin guards on has his leg kick is checked by Bas Rutten causing his opponents leg to wrap around like it was Mt. Fantastic of the Fantastic Four!

Spider against Weidman? Corey Hill?

Those almost made me puke. Still I do not think that "checking" a kick (that has done 1,000's of time the damage that Teeps have done) should be banned. I don't disagree that it is gruesome on the extreme rare occasion that it is executed perfectly. It simply is not in the realm of causing damage to legs in striking combat sports the way checks have done!

 

[CTYankee]

If Jones wasn't doing it, nobody would be complaining.

 

[Andy Anderson]

I think with any MMA strike there is clearly aim to damage the opponent, I think with that particular strike, to the knee, there is a clear intent to do serious and potentially lasting damage to the opponent.

I think there are some fighters who would never dream of using that strike, in fact, if you listen to Joanna J's interview last week, she said she would never use that strike, and never train that strike herself...

There are some fighters that would, I think that says something about them.


But its not just Sherdoggers, Joanna Champion herself at the Q&A last week said she wouldnt do it.

Joanna is right. If you use this in my gym, you will be kicked out of my gym

 

[screaminleeman]

I think with any MMA strike there is clearly aim to damage the opponent, I think with that particular strike, to the knee, there is a clear intent to do serious and potentially lasting damage to the opponent.

I think there are some fighters who would never dream of using that strike, in fact, if you listen to Joanna J's interview last week, she said she would never use that strike, and never train that strike herself...

There are some fighters that would, I think that says something about them.


But its not just Sherdoggers, Joanna Champion herself at the Q&A last week said she wouldnt do it.

There is merit in this stance. It appears that JJ is well versed in Thai style fighting, and is likely very "familiar" with them from her training experience. I can respect her decision to not employ them in the Octagon. (Truth be told, I will rewatch JJ's previous fight(s) as I could almost swear that she has employed the technique in the UFC, but I accept that I could easily be mistaken!)

As long as she trains defense for this technique, she is 100% justified IMO. Like other have said, heal hooks are deadly, and also legal. She likely isn't going to apply a heel hook either, but had better know how to defend it should one of he opponents apply it on her.

 

[MMA_Fan]

That's true. With a heel hook though you really don't have time to tap in mma and a heel hook shreds every ligament in your knee. I understand your point though for sure

There are ways to defend the heal hook before you have your knee/ankle ripped up. I agree though that you don't have the same time you have with the average knee bar.

 

[screaminleeman]

Joanna is right. If you use this in my gym, you will be kicked out of my gym

I was under the impression that JJ was with team Jackson, as you always see her with JBJ in the audience together at UFC events. If that is not the case, Sorry.

Nobody is getting kicked out od Jackson-Winklejon for employing this technique obviously.