Teenage bluebelt trying repeatedly to berimbolo a blackbelt

No, you're not. People seem to think that IBJJF rules should apply to rolling in the academy, which is terribly stupid and a disservice to everyone involved.

Agree. I think leg locking someone repeatedly is a perfectly valid way to show that there is a massive problem with what they're doing. Just like repeatedly passing someone's guard, or repeatedly taking them down.
 
All I ask is that people actually read the thread before they criticize and ask questions that were already answered.

And the point of giving a much lower belt the top is to give them the advantageous position. If they get the top they can work attacks, and the guy on bottom can work sweeps. Most of the time when there are two largely disparate belts, and the higher belt takes the top, they'll just submit the guy and things will be over.

Usually if I am restarting with a guy a bunch of times, ya i'll give them the top most of the time, and sometimes I'll take the top and work from there just to mix it up.

when is being in someone's guard an advantageous position? You could have just tried to double guard pull him.

maybe he is killing the lower belts with the old bolo. maybe you are the only one trying to leglock him and he is trying to figure out how not to get leglocked.
 
Think of it this way: The only way you came up with to stop this blue belt from his berimbolo was using moves that would have DQ'd you in blue belt competition.

So everyone in the academy, when rolling, has to train under IBJJF tournament rules applicable to the lower belt only? And this was the only way I could come up with to stop him from berimboloing me?

Okay man keep doing what you want.
 
I don't understand why everyone is so upset about leglocking a blue belt? IMO Any blue belt should know the basics (at LEAST) when it comes to attackign and defending kneebars and toeholds.

I know I"ve been practicing them a lot (along with heel hooks) for hte last 2 years (since I got my blue). I see absolutely no problem with this.
 
I think that everyone in here getting upset with TS for leg-locking a blue belt should consider that not every academy has the same rules, and that many places allow leglocks from day one.

My club allows reaping and all leg locks except for heel hooks (and more experienced guys are allowed to do them against each other), and the only people that are discouraged from doing them are new guys with no grappling experience. Once they've been around for a few months, they learn some leg attacks and defense and they become fair game.

Personally, I try to mostly follow IBJJF rules in gi classes, and save the more open rules for no-gi. With that said, I'm a blue belt, and if I'm going against another experienced guy that gives me a toehold, I'll happily take it. I think that it's important to start learning to defend that kind of stuff early on, even if it isn't allowed at most tournaments until later belts.
 
I think that everyone in here getting upset with TS for leg-locking a blue belt should consider that not every academy has the same rules, and that many places allow leglocks from day one.

My club allows reaping and all leg locks except for heel hooks (and more experienced guys are allowed to do them against each other), and the only people that are discouraged from doing them are new guys with no grappling experience. Once they've been around for a few months, they learn some leg attacks and defense and they become fair game.

Personally, I try to mostly follow IBJJF rules in gi classes, and save the more open rules for no-gi. With that said, I'm a blue belt, and if I'm going against another experienced guy that gives me a toehold, I'll happily take it. I think that it's important to start learning to defend that kind of stuff early on, even if it isn't allowed at most tournaments until later belts.

And I think, in the context of this thread, people are not considering that leglocks, specifically, present a huge spectrum of danger to the berimbolo entry. If you can't even get past the entry and get to the roll itself, you're nowhere.

So people are saying we should just ignore the most significant defense/exposure to the very technique we're talking about, because a person of more experience is doing it, DESPITE the fact that that person is specifically the safest person to be doing this king of thing with. This makes no sense.
 
Last edited:
Nothing wrong with attacking the legs. If technique is sloppy and the limbs are dangling, you take them. Because of the pussy IBJJF rules people think techniques like this are dirty or cheap...but if they were allowed, nobody would carry that stigma about them. Imagine a world where arm bars were "banned" from lower level competitions...ooh, the dreaded arm bar...that's a "black belt" technique..."but the poor blue belt who didn't have good technique when posturing in the black belt's guard left his arm forward of the belt and the black belt grabbed it and submitted him."

Earth to everyone, even a white belt can heel hook, knee bar, toe hold, slam, use spinal compressions and more...just because a competition rule set doesn't allow it doesn't mean it's not valid. Here is the biggest reason i think ibjjf rules are bunk...leg attacks are valid defenses to the bolo, but if i can't use leg attacks to counter, you have given an unfair advantage to the technique and stifled much of the counter game of competitors at lower levels.

Do you know how to defend yourself against getting hurt by a submission? You tap. Well, unless you're fighting palhares...then it doesn't matter.
 
Agree that a lot of times leglocks are a last resort. It was one of the first things I ever learned before I started bjj, so as a white belt I could land it fairly often. These days I won't heel hook or twist toe hold someone even if I have to, not so competitive as I used to be and the club I'm at mostly has low level guys. But if I achilles lock or toe hold someone it's usually because I'm in trouble.
 
Agree that a lot of times leglocks are a last resort. It was one of the first things I ever learned before I started bjj, so as a white belt I could land it fairly often. These days I won't heel hook or twist toe hold someone even if I have to, not so competitive as I used to be and the club I'm at mostly has low level guys. But if I achilles lock or toe hold someone it's usually because I'm in trouble.

Utter nonsense. You've swallowed the propaganda.

If you have a skillset that others can't defend and you fall back on it when your other moves aren't working.... That is called being every grappler ever.

They're only desperation moves because they're a trump card to the hobbled and crippled grapplers that mindless adherence to IBJJF rule sets produces.

If a blue belt goes for a leg lock on me because I'm smashing him, I counter it and go back to smashing him. This is because I don't dismiss them as cheap and neglect them like the unloved stepchildren of BJJ. On the other hand, when I catch much better grapplers than me with leg locks that is on them, not me, for having a gaping hole in their game.

No different than someone who just doesn't know how to defend the brabo/guillotine/anaconda series. It doesn't make them cheap, it means they should work on their head-and-arm.
 
Am I the only person here who thinks it's perfectly fine to toe hold and kneebar a blue belt? When I go de la riva on my instructor, his go-to counter every time is a rolling calf slicer, and I'm fine with it.

my instructor and other colored belts have been knee barring and toe holding me since white belt. people need to stop being scared of leg locks and realize how important they are to learn early
 
Here is my honest read on the situation,

I read this as black belt who thought he was in for a casual roll repeatedly tapping a blue belt trying his go-to game with illegal techniques after it was more of a challenge than anticipated. After you get knocked off your base you think, "oh your going to go for a berimbolo!? Fine, ill see how you like a knee bar then." You slightly disagree with his game, because like many black belts, probably only first learned the berimbolo at purple/higher belt and think that others need to learn it in the same order.

The tough young blue belt represents something greater than what happened in a single isolated roll. It bothers you more than any other unexpectedly tough roll because of what he represents. He represents a mentality that is out there and but only partially understand. On many levels, you watch other competent grapplers try and kneebar and toe hold great berimbolo guys and know that those techniques would have likely not worked in a few more years when he learns to protect his feet better.

When we have to actually "try" when we expected to do close to whatever we wanted, this highlights the presence our ego is undermining long term progress.

For starters, I think its common for upper belts not to respect lower belts skill and threat they could pose on the mats. Look at many old school guys attitudes towards lower belts. I KNOW there are blue belts and purple belts that could beat me in a competition setting. Most don't - but I know they are out there and occasionally I run into them. I respect each one I roll with and if there is any guidance that my experience can offer them, I will while all the while recognizing in a few years they could surpass my Jiu-Jitsu knowledge and ability. This was a lesson I learned early watching a dorky looking 15 year old kid with braces giving some of my toughest training partners a hard time. Now everybody knows him - but nobody did at the time.

My suggestion is, instead of being competitive and slightly adversarial with this blue belt, is to learn from him instead of looking for sympathy against a 1 dimensional blue belt being for being one dimensional. He has something to teach you and I. Try going into his DLR guard and see if you can prevent him from knocking you off your base without resulting to leg attacks. Try letting him recover if you step over a leg and get in tight. This guy might have only 3-4 years experience, but he probably has 2 years of obsessive compulsive berimbolo knowledge behind him. Somebody who thinks like this kid - but with more experience - could be sitting across from you at your next tournament.

More importantly, share with him what you have to offer about a more old school mentality. If he melds the two together, perhaps instead of the dorky young kid with braces, he will turn into a Liera Jr. with the benefit of your experience.

This badass post and no one has commented on it even once?

I don't really play that berimbolo style and this is one of the coolest posts I've read recently.
 
Am I the only person here who thinks it's perfectly fine to toe hold and kneebar a blue belt? When I go de la riva on my instructor, his go-to counter every time is a rolling calf slicer, and I'm fine with it.

It's definitely fine. It's good to be exposed to leg locks early. It's better to be leg locked by a black belt that knows more what they're doing also.
 
good on him if he wants to get that technique down. hes probably online looking for defences and ways to fix the wholes in his game now so you wont be able to get him as easily the next time you guys roll
 
I agree that the berimbolo fad is getting a little out of hand, but it wasn't necessary to start a thread about this. I can't believe a black belt would give a shit about something like this enough to start a thread about it.
 
Did you feel a welling of pride as you knee-bar'd a blue belt. I mean c'mon man you've only rolled with this kid one other time, you didn't know if he'd spazz and hurt himself when you did that. You should know better.
 
I think it depends on if he was improving as the roll went on. Sometimes it is a bit irritating when someone that is still relatively new and makes the whole roll about once particular position or technique and never seems to change or evolve what they are doing. As long as he is learning as he progresses. I remember doing the same thing once with half guard. When I was new and kept pulling half guard to work a sweep on a BB when finally (looking at me puzzled) he said, "Haven't you figured out that don't work yet?" After the roll I heard him tell another BB, "Do you believe that guy pulling half guard on me?"

I knew that there was no way i would tap the guy, I just wanted to see how he would defend some sweeps and how he would beat me.
 
I think it depends on if he was improving as the roll went on. Sometimes it is a bit irritating when someone that is still relatively new and makes the whole roll about once particular position or technique and never seems to change or evolve what they are doing. As long as he is learning as he progresses. I remember doing the same thing once with half guard. When I was new and kept pulling half guard to work a sweep on a BB when finally (looking at me puzzled) he said, "Haven't you figured out that don't work yet?" After the roll I heard him tell another BB, "Do you believe that guy pulling half guard on me?"

I knew that there was no way i would tap the guy, I just wanted to see how he would defend some sweeps and how he would beat me.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I definitely didn't think "oh the nerve of this kid." I don't think I've even once felt that way about a roll. It was more surprise that he didn't adjust his game after realizing, hey, this particular (difficult) move isn't going to work in these circumstances. I mean typically it is dogmatic that position comes first, and so pulling guard and immediately taking a huge risk if fine - but to do it again and again was puzzling. I was just kinda like ok, we can do this, but I think you're going to at some point realize that you are exposing yourself, and you're going to need to make adjustments.
 
When I was new and kept pulling half guard to work a sweep on a BB when finally (looking at me puzzled) he said, "Haven't you figured out that don't work yet?" After the roll I heard him tell another BB, "Do you believe that guy pulling half guard on me?"
That guy was a jerk. I wouldn't want to train with someone like that.
 
Back
Top