Teenage bluebelt trying repeatedly to berimbolo a blackbelt

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by irc, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. irc

    irc Brown Belt

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    So, we were doing 10 minute rounds the other day. I go with this kid in my academy that is really cool, but really young. I think maybe 18. He's a strong blue belt, has been training for years. For whatever reason, I've only ever rolled with him maybe one other time.

    I'm a black belt, so I usually just pull guard with someone like this and let them start on top and do their thing. During the 10 minutes, this kid didn't once take top. Each time we'd start he'd pull guard and proceed to attempt to berimbolo me. Each time I ankle-locked, toe-holded, or knee-barred him. Time after time. He didn't once try anything other than this.

    What are people's thoughts on this? Is it cool because the kid is trying to work an innovative game (if you can even call it that)? Is it just the reality of much of today's jiu jitsu?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  2. Chalito

    Chalito Purple Belt

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    Depends on what he's aiming to do with bjj I suppose. I know alot of the lower belts are playing this type of game and if it's what he enjoys then it should be ok. Granted he should also be working the rest of his game including top positions and passing.
     
  3. kimble09

    kimble09 Green Belt

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    giving him the benefit of the doubt, he's probably trying to find holes in his berimbolo game...what better way than to constantly try against a blackbelt??
     
  4. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Hmmm.......... Catch 22 imo. A young blue who gets to roll with a BB should be opening up his game and trying all kinds I stuff. Maybe we was just dead set on working thru it. Did he ask advice at all?

    As far as people using this game these days I think it sucks, but I also think it will lead to something else and a whole new generation of graplers with innovative style. Excited to see what comes out of that innovation.
     
  5. RyanR

    RyanR Black Belt

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    Was he trying to force it or did it seem like each time he was trying to adapt and make adjustments when he saw it wasn't working?
     
  6. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Toe hold and knee bar a blue belt! Really?

    I would have taught him how to do a proper berimbolo instead.
     
  7. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    The only way to learn something is to keep working it until it happens. You eat a lot of darces and guillotine when developing a single from half guard, but if you don't continually try despite failure your game won't progress
     
  8. TeamKenpo

    TeamKenpo Above all, training should be fun

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    Toe holding and knee barring a blue belt? Sheesh. Harsh brah.
     
  9. Jackson 2012

    Jackson 2012 Orange Belt

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    You're the black belt. What do you think?
     
  10. Mad Ruthless

    Mad Ruthless I come here for working, dats it.

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    Maybe he was hoping you would give him some tips.

    I know some of the guys can be too afraid (or proud) to ask for advice, and they will resort to repetition, wether successful or not, in the hopes that you will point out the flaws in their movements, either during the roll or after.

    He's like a kitty in heat just walkin around with his butthole in the air, looking for some help. Not really sure why I felt the need to make this comparison.. :S
     
  11. TrumpetDan

    TrumpetDan Green Belt

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    Here is my honest read on the situation,

    I read this as black belt who thought he was in for a casual roll repeatedly tapping a blue belt trying his go-to game with illegal techniques after it was more of a challenge than anticipated. After you get knocked off your base you think, "oh your going to go for a berimbolo!? Fine, ill see how you like a knee bar then." You slightly disagree with his game, because like many black belts, probably only first learned the berimbolo at purple/higher belt and think that others need to learn it in the same order.

    The tough young blue belt represents something greater than what happened in a single isolated roll. It bothers you more than any other unexpectedly tough roll because of what he represents. He represents a mentality that is out there and but only partially understand. On many levels, you watch other competent grapplers try and kneebar and toe hold great berimbolo guys and know that those techniques would have likely not worked in a few more years when he learns to protect his feet better.

    When we have to actually "try" when we expected to do close to whatever we wanted, this highlights the presence our ego is undermining long term progress.

    For starters, I think its common for upper belts not to respect lower belts skill and threat they could pose on the mats. Look at many old school guys attitudes towards lower belts. I KNOW there are blue belts and purple belts that could beat me in a competition setting. Most don't - but I know they are out there and occasionally I run into them. I respect each one I roll with and if there is any guidance that my experience can offer them, I will while all the while recognizing in a few years they could surpass my Jiu-Jitsu knowledge and ability. This was a lesson I learned early watching a dorky looking 15 year old kid with braces giving some of my toughest training partners a hard time. Now everybody knows him - but nobody did at the time.

    My suggestion is, instead of being competitive and slightly adversarial with this blue belt, is to learn from him instead of looking for sympathy against a 1 dimensional blue belt being for being one dimensional. He has something to teach you and I. Try going into his DLR guard and see if you can prevent him from knocking you off your base without resulting to leg attacks. Try letting him recover if you step over a leg and get in tight. This guy might have only 3-4 years experience, but he probably has 2 years of obsessive compulsive berimbolo knowledge behind him. Somebody who thinks like this kid - but with more experience - could be sitting across from you at your next tournament.

    More importantly, share with him what you have to offer about a more old school mentality. If he melds the two together, perhaps instead of the dorky young kid with braces, he will turn into a Liera Jr. with the benefit of your experience.
     
  12. irc

    irc Brown Belt

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    I think that when given the top position by a higher belt, you take it. But maybe this is antiquated thinking.

    I think that when trying to develop a complicated move or game, you do so on guys that are at your level or below, and move up the ladder as appropriate. I don't think you spend 10 minutes with a black belt trying something out. But then again, maybe that's the perfect time?

    I think that when a blue belt gets a round with a black belt, they should bring their front end, A game, to see where they are at, and that is the game they should be working on against a black belt.

    But I also think its awesome how myopic this approach was, because sometimes that's what it takes. After the round we talked about the fact that the dangers of entering the berimbolo were exactly what I was doing to him. He was surprised by a lot of it, which I think is a good indication he should be at least trying it on higher belts.

    And to those surprised a black belt would leg lock a blue while rolling, I don't know what kind of gym you train at, but this should never be a problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  13. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    Rolling with a blackbelt shouldn't be a privilege, it should be a common occurrence.

    I agree that leglocks shouldn't be that large an issue.
     
  14. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    toe holding a blue belt?? lol some of those bolo's must have got close if you needed to do that. In my experience higher belts only bring those moves out when they feel they are in some kind of trouble in a situation. Kind of lame if the blue didnt know, expect or ever learn how to apply or defend them. If its a regular thing at that gym then obv np but most gyms ive trained at blues arent allowed to do them.


    at the end of the day ppl play how they wanna play. i dont really judge whatever anybody wants to do. Most ppl do BJJ for fun and if that is fun for him then more power to him. I personally love going inverted and messing around, be it on black belts or white belts. If they feel ways about it i guess that is on them. I can get tapped 20x in a roll and not give a damn.
     
  15. Solidus Snake

    Solidus Snake Purple Belt

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    I don't understand all this surprise over the leglocks..

    Brown and black belts leglocks (with toe holds, kneebars etc.) my sorry blue belt ass since like forever.. but they do it in a controlled manner and I tap early, I never got hurt by it.

    It's also really good for technique as it removed a lot of bad habits from my open guards.
     
  16. irc

    irc Brown Belt

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    Because of sheer numbers alone, I probably spend most of my time with blue belts. Because the circumstances are different from when I'm rolling with a brown or black, my game will likewise be different. I think this framework exists at every belt level.
     
  17. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I don't think the leg locks are a big deal, if they're allowed in rolling at your school. I leg lock blue belts from time to time, it's not my main goal but the IBJJF isn't BJJ. I also have blue belts try to knee bar and toe hold me, those are acceptable moves at my gym. As for the blue belt trying the same thing over and over, maybe that is his A game. I would think a black belt would be able to submit a blue belt repeatedly whether the blue was using his A game or not. I'm a little surprised you didn't ever just pass his guard (maybe you did and just didn't mention it), or stop him from getting to DLR in the first place if you were tired of working from there. Regarding him not coming on top when you gave it to him, I don't think he's obligated. I always start on bottom with lower belts, but if they pull guard in return I'll come to my feet and pass. I pull as a courtesy, but I'm basically just giving them the option of playing on top if they want to. I don't really care where they want to take it. My black belt instructor is the same way; he'll sit down and let you try to pass, but if you sit down he'll stand and pass your guard and I really don't think he cares what the position is one way or another.
     
  18. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    I see what you're saying in that your game will be different depending upon your opponents skill, I just don't agree that you should always take top or play A game with blackbelts. I probably try my more experimental game with my coach, because he will show me how realistic that move is. Only testing stuff on lower belts, leads to a false sense of ability because they don't have the level of skill to address it efficiently.
     
  19. bagelgod

    bagelgod Green Belt

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    HE WAS LEGLOCKING BLUEBELTS OH THE HUMANITY





    Rafael Mendes will not hesitate to footlock you if you have a sloppy DLR guard / berimbolo. Punishment can be a great teaching tool.
     
  20. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    if your only defense vs a lower belt trying to bolo you is a leglock you prob getting in bad spots to begin with anyways.

    and OH RAF MENDES DOES IT!! MUST BE WHAT WE SHOULD ALL DO!! I SHOULD VISIT GYMS AND LEGLOCK ALL THE WHITE AND BLUE BELTS, IM SURE ILL BE A WELCOMED GUEST WORLDWIDE!!
     

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