Techniques that would take Machida's striking to the next level

[comanchero**]

Revolution of Kicking - Side Kick - YouTubeI'll keep this concise. Machida has shown a weakness to leg kicks from orthodox muay thai fighters. In his fight with shogun he had to take one to land one usually in the form of landing a punch to take a leg kick to his lead leg or overhand. In his second fight he chose to switch to orthodox the results being obvious.TKd and Machida's shotokan have a great deal of crossover in terms of techniques and movement. Shotokan,Savate and TKD all primarily strike from a distance.I therefor postulate that in using the following techniques from Savate and TKD he could diversify his striking without compromising what fundementally makes his style successful.

From the savate the rear leg hook kick (southpaw stance) could catch his opponent from his blind spot while the the straight lead leg lateral reverse kick would allow him to strike first almost like a jab- both executed while avoiding the leg kick and keeping him out of range of the overhand. the Low side kick from savate is more powerful and difficult to counter as it is performed while sidestepping making the opponent have to keep his legs planted in order to block it.

savate_??_?
Kicking Demos part 1 - YouTube


From TKD the side kick and the reverse front kick would be effective aswell ina southpaw vs orthodox fight.
Revolution of Kicking - Side Kick - YouTube
Cung Le sidekick - YouTube

Originally Posted by Jukai
Here's the real question: how many fighters in MMA history have you ever see use a savant front/rear hook kick to check a leg kick? Cause from my count, it's never. It involves a boatload of timing, and if the leg kick gets to you before your hook kick connects, you are on your ass.

thats not what im saying. as a south paw versus an orthodox fighter- thier lead legs are lined up. rather than having to go around to shoguns power leg to land a punch and thus risk getting hit- machida could use a variety savate kicks using the lead leg or the tkf instep side kick step behind offensively rather than as a counter. Jerome Le Banner - Step/side kick - YouTube


machida's whole thing is being ambidexterus. if anyone can use his lead leg like a jab its machida.

 

[Alaskantkdkid]

Are you saying that you don't think a fighter like Machida who has been doing Karate his whole life can't throw a spin hook kick? You'd be absolutely moronic if you think that. He doesn't throw it because this is MMA and shit like that never lands.

 

[comanchero**]

Are you saying that you don't think a fighter like Machida who has been doing Karate his whole life can't throw a spin hook kick? You'd be absolutely moronic if you think that. He doesn't throw it because this is MMA and shit like that never lands.

where did I even mention the spinning hook kick? are you one of those retards who cant read ? you do know savate is a completely different art than karate right? keep your ignorant comments to yourself.

 

[BakedBrotato]

I think Machida could seriously benefit from learning more dirty boxing. He's really strong in the clinch, but seems to have trouble striking at that range. His straights and crosses are fast, crisp, and always well timed, but he isn't the most proficient with hooks and uppercuts.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

shotokan already has the rear leg hook kick in it

http://www.karatevid.com/pics/joe_ron.jpg

 

[comanchero**]

shotokan already has the rear leg hook kick in it

http://www.karatevid.com/pics/joe_ron.jpg

read hooks kicks are more like this in savate. dont you think the angle is different as the torso remains squared up?

Frontal reverse (crescent kick) - YouTube

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

read hooks kicks are more like this in savate. dont you think the angle is different as the torso remains squared up?

Frontal reverse (crescent kick) - YouTube

Yeah i know i saw the vid. He attacks from a more square position BUT his body goes side ways as he throws the hook kick as the body has to for the kick to be executed.

Theres not much variety you can put in the hook kick and starting out square is hardly going to add anything to lyotos toolbox

 

[comanchero**]

Yeah i know i saw the vid. He attacks from a more square position BUT his body goes side ways as he throws the hook kick as the body has to for the kick to be executed.

Theres not much variety you can put in the hook kick and starting out square is hardly going to add anything to lyotos toolbox

the cool thing about savate is you use your lead leg. do you think this would change things a bit given he could attack from a farther range with out risking the leg kick?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

the cool thing about savate is you use your lead leg. do you think this would change things a bit given he could attack from a farther range with out risking the leg kick?

Karate uses the lead leg as well. If lyoto wants to deal better with leg kicks then he should simply check them with his leg as everyone else does.

 

[Jukai]

Here's the real question: how many fighters in MMA history have you ever see use a savant front/rear hook kick to check a leg kick? Cause from my count, it's never. It involves a boatload of timing, and if the leg kick gets to you before your hook kick connects, you are on your ass.

 

[comanchero**]

Here's the real question: how many fighters in MMA history have you ever see use a savant front/rear hook kick to check a leg kick? Cause from my count, it's never. It involves a boatload of timing, and if the leg kick gets to you before your hook kick connects, you are on your ass.

thats not what im saying. as a south paw versus an orthodox fighter- thier lead legs are lined up. rather than having to go around to shoguns power leg to land a punch and thus risk getting hit- machida could use a variety savate kicks using the lead leg or the tkf instep side kick step behind offensively rather than as a counter. Jerome Le Banner - Step/side kick - YouTube


machida's whole thing is being ambidexterus. if anyone can use his lead leg like a jab its machida.

 

[Jukai]

thats not what im saying. as a south paw versus an orthodox fighter- thier lead legs are lined up. rather than having to go around to shoguns power leg to land a punch and thus risk getting hit- machida could use a variety savate kicks using the lead leg or the tkf instep side kick step behind offensively rather than as a counter. Jerome Le Banner - Step/side kick - YouTube


machida's whole thing is being ambidexterus. if anyone can use his lead leg like a jab its machida.

You never throw any type of kick like a jab in a sport where someone can grab a leg and toss you around, especially kicks that juts out. Those are best saved for counters, and one or two offensive ones to add a sense of unexpectedness.

Honestly, Machida just needs to check it instead of absorbing it.

 

[comanchero**]

You never throw any type of kick like a jab in a sport where someone can grab a leg and toss you around, especially kicks that juts out. Those are best saved for counters, and one or two offensive ones to add a sense of unexpectedness. <
Honestly, Machida just needs to check it instead of absorbing it.

what would you call machidas kicks against rashad the best wrestler in the division and by your logic most apt to exploit such kicks?
the way machida and shogun line up machida is just on the border of shoguns blind side. he could easily land a side kick or savate low kick his lead leg before shogun even gets a chance to hit him with a low kick.this isnt a counter. this is based on thier respective stances.

round houses are just as suceptable to being caught. most ufc fighters just dont know karate, taekwon do or savate. great strikers like anderson and cung le use all of the kicks i mentioned.

 

[Jukai]

the way machida and shogun line up machida is just on the border of shoguns blind side. he could easily land a side kick or savate low kick his lead leg before shogun even gets a chance to hit him with a low kick.this isnt a counter. this is based on thier respective stances.

round houses are just as suceptable to being caught. most ufc fighters just dont know karate, taekwon do or savate. great strikers like anderson and cung le uses all of the kicks i mentioned.

Yeah, but they sure as hell don't use the as jabs. Anderson goes through entire matches without throwing a kick depending on his opponent. Cung Le likes to throw kicks, but it's really only one or two side kicks a match.

And roundhouse kicks are much harder to catch than sidekicks. You have momentum bringing your leg back, the natural reaction to block a roundhouse kick is harder to grab with, the shin digs in and not the foot, and it comes from the outside of someone's peripheral vision. I don't really have to state this, but you have to force your sidekick back or else you'll fall forward (so it's slower to bring back, or at the very least, harder), you hit with the foot and it goes straight INTO the body making it far easier to catch, and it comes RIGHT AT YOU.

I understand the way they line up, Machida is going to be able to get the kick off and Shogun wont see it, but after it connects, Shogun is going to have a lot of time to grab it and bring Lyoto down. It can't be thrown more than once, twice in a five round match. Savant-based kicks are even worse, because they are JUTTED out. They are meant to deal damage in a kickboxing match, and KO in a street fight. In an MMA match where one can grab your leg, you can't keep your kick out that long to get that damage. You'd have to alter it. A Sanshou/TKD low thrust side kick or Karate snap kick are better suited, but even then they can't be thrown that much.

I don't think working on a few new kicks would hurt machida, but it is a limited arsenal and no where near game changing.

 

[comanchero**]

Yeah, but they sure as hell don't use the as jabs. Anderson goes through entire matches without throwing a kick depending on his opponent. Cung Le likes to throw kicks, but it's really only one or two side kicks a match.

And roundhouse kicks are much harder to catch than sidekicks. You have momentum bringing your leg back, the natural reaction to block a roundhouse kick is harder to grab with, the shin digs in and not the foot, and it comes from the outside of someone's peripheral vision. I don't really have to state this, but you have to force your sidekick back or else you'll fall forward (so it's slower to bring back, or at the very least, harder), you hit with the foot and it goes straight INTO the body making it far easier to catch, and it comes RIGHT AT YOU.

I understand the way they line up, Machida is going to be able to get the kick off and Shogun wont see it, but after it connects, Shogun is going to have a lot of time to grab it and bring Lyoto down. It can't be thrown more than once, twice in a five round match. Savant-based kicks are even worse, because they are JUTTED out. They are meant to deal damage in a kickboxing match, and KO in a street fight. In an MMA match where one can grab your leg, you can't keep your kick out that long to get that damage. You'd have to alter it. A Sanshou/TKD low thrust side kick or Karate snap kick are better suited, but even then they can't be thrown that much.

I don't think working on a few new kicks would hurt machida, but it is a limited arsenal and no where near game changing.

The problem with machida as i see is that he often limits the kinds of strikes he throws. even with jon jones jus the threat of some of his snap kicks is enough to keep his opponents guessing. shogun went into the second fight with machida's moves memorized. Look at the difference that the crane kick made in the randy couture fight. people were taken aback because they never saw it coming and had you said it would work in a high level match against vitor or randy people wouldve scoffed at you.

Think of the difference it wouldve made if instead of the same straight left he'd thrown 20 times he used a side kick or even the rear cresent. I doubt after being hit at such an odd angle by such a unexpected move that shogun would grab it. I mean if a kick can be expected to knock someone out in a street fight why not mma? after all you can grab a leg just as easily in a street fight with bigger reprocussions - savate was made for the streets! I wouldnt perscribe this to all mma fighters but lyoto is someone i think could benifit from it especially given the limited nature and speed of the strikes he throws.

I agree with the sanshoTKD - altho someone mentioned you could use the karate snap kick with the lead leg i wasnt aware of that. the importance for me is the use of the lead of the telegraphing pf using your rear leg.

 

[Jukai]

Hey, if your post was "Lyoto's kicks are too linear, and he should change it up to keep his opponents off-guard" then I could agree with you a bit. I've only really seen him throw variations of a mawashi geri, it wouldn't hurt for him to change it up a bit.

Do I think Lyoto developing a sidekick which he would have thrown once or twice in a five round match would have helped him win against Rua? No. I think Lyoto not bowing to pressure and changing up his entire stance and gameplan to a guy he lost 3-2 to because he gassed in rounds 4 and 5 would be the best plan against Shogun in the future.

 

[comanchero**]

Hey, if your post was "Lyoto's kicks are too linear, and he should change it up to keep his opponents off-guard" then I could agree with you a bit. I've only really seen him throw variations of a mawashi geri, it wouldn't hurt for him to change it up a bit.

Do I think Lyoto developing a sidekick which he would have thrown once or twice in a five round match would have helped him win against Rua? No. I think Lyoto not bowing to pressure and changing up his entire stance and gameplan to a guy he lost 3-2 to because he gassed in rounds 4 and 5 would be the best plan against Shogun in the future.[/QUOTE]

you mean like in the second match? yeah im inclined to agree.regardless it seemed he could not get passed creating offense outside of circling to shoguns rear power leg to land a punch. the kicks i mention do that.

 

[Jukai]

I agree with the sanshoTKD - altho someone mentioned you could use the karate snap kick with the lead leg i wasnt aware of that. the importance for me is the use of the lead of the telegraphing pf using your rear leg.

Yeah, the side snap kick with the lead leg in Karate is kinda difficult without stepping through though. Not a lot of balance, hard to aim it, I never liked it.

you mean like in the second match? yeah im inclined to agree.regardless it seemed he could not get passed creating offense outside of circling to shoguns rear power leg to land a punch. the kicks i mention do that.

I felt that Machida won the first round, Shogun took the second, I gave the slight edge to Machida on the third round but could see why people called it for Shogun... the real ass beating came in the fourth and fifth round. But I'm of the opinion that Lyoto got gassed and simply stopped dodging/bothering with the leg kicks, and that's why they looked so severe. I think Shogun and Lyoto are pretty evenly matched, Shogun with the slight edge simply because he's clearly in Lyoto's head right now.

I guess that's why I feel there isn't much need for Lyoto to make drastic changes with his kicks.

 

[comanchero**]

Yeah, the side snap kick with the lead leg in Karate is kinda difficult without stepping through though. Not a lot of balance, hard to aim it, I never liked it




I felt that Machida won the first round, Shogun took the second, I gave the slight edge to Machida on the third round but could see why people called it for Shogun... the real ass beating came in the fourth and fifth round. But I'm of the opinion that Lyoto got gassed and simply stopped dodging/bothering with the leg kicks, and that's why they looked so severe. I think Shogun and Lyoto are pretty evenly matched, Shogun with the slight edge simply because he's clearly in Lyoto's head right now.

I guess that's why I feel there isn't much need for Lyoto to make drastic changes with his kicks.

to my knowledge the power of the front side is gained through the instep. im more familiar with the TKD sanshou side kick which is better on all counts. thats all id consider drastic. machidas a smart guy

i agree shogun clearly won the last two and the second was close however there is this overwhelming tendency by the mma mainstream to exaggerate everything shogun did early in the rounds and discount everything machida did later on. [ROUND 4] Machida Head Kick Gif - Awesome MMA Gif Details i mean how many people even remember this devastating head kick in round four?

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[Jukai]

Better on all counts, eh? Guess I'll have to take your word for it.

Agree with the Lyoto/Shogun stuff.