Technical skills that allow grapplers to transition to combat

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by TheMaster, Feb 3, 2020.

  1. TheMaster Take The Road To Reality

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    Beyond just the ability to take a punch.

    It seems certain styles or ways of doing grappling translate better to combat/mma, regardless of the grappling art.

    So some elite amateur wrestlers just cannot make that transition but dominate their owm sport.
    Same with some elite Judo/BJJ guys...some adapted great to combat others are elite of the elite in their niche grappling art but get worked when they try to fight.



    So what are the technical variables that determine ability to transition from any grapplin' style to fightin'?
     
  2. BJJ Coffee Drinker Amateur Fighter

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    Takedowns or some way to drag the fight down to the ground

    To be fair to JJ Macahdo, Frank Trigging was a terrible matchup for any BJJ guy at the time. Moderately heavy hand, threw a decent punch, and strong wrestling made a disaster for any BJJ fighter
     
  3. biscuitsbrah Red Belt

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    I’m an mma fighter and I have no wrestling background. I level change frequently and shoot doubles and singles quite often. I also have the ability to grind against the cage and constantly re-shoot or chain takedowns when I’m getting stuffed.

    My friend/training partner was a decent high school wrestler but doesn’t utilize his wrestling much at all. His style was all power based, mostly picking guys up and slamming them. He also likes to use knee taps but he doesn’t shoot often.

    Needless to say I would frequently out wrestle him in mma sparring.

    I feel like the ability to control and grind in grappling exchanges is very important for mma.
     
  4. rmongler Black Belt

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    Clinchfighting, riding, and escaping.
     
  5. Bubblun Brown Belt

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    Just wondering, what is your rank/experience with bjj?

    I am in the same boat, I feel that grabbing a leg and hold it like a dog with a bone it works great ... until you face the freak hard to take down or the amazing wrestler, then it ends like the video above.

    In mma at the high level it seems that shooting for legs is a bad idea if you don't have a wrestling background, because it's too tiring and being "turtled" under a sprawl isn't a good spot.
     
  6. nefti Silver Belt

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    let's not also forget that jj machado doesn't have fingers in one of his hands. hard to grab on to a leg without fingers. Not that it would have made much of a difference.
     
  7. biscuitsbrah Red Belt

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    I’ve been doing bjj for about 6-7 years now. I’m a blue belt who hasn’t touched the gi consistently for maybe 3 years now.

    I would say wrestling a good wrestler in general is a very bad idea. (Unless they are really tired) Shooting on your knees can get you in trouble if you aren’t smart about it. Singles can be pretty non-committal if they aren’t making you pay with strikes imo
     
  8. RyanR Black Belt

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    Going for the kill.

    Too many hobbyists and even some competitors get caught up with the “flow” and keeping it playful.

    Fuck that, crush the mofo if it’s not a friendly sparring session. I’ve watched far too many high level grapplers go for an arm bar, extend and lock it, and then allow their opponent to escape due to the opponent feeling like they weren’t in immediate danger. I’m not saying snap an arm ASAP, but if you go for an arm bar it had better be inflicting some serious pain on the opponent and causing fear of immediate dislocation.
     
  9. shunyata Red Belt

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    He's literally handicapped for grappling and mma which is why his grappling competition record is even more insane.
     
  10. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Grappling is combat. Isn't kickboxing or boxing combat?
     
  11. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    You know, this is just a highlight. If you watch the full fight, you will see that JJM actually did quite well for himself and probably would have done very well in MMA had he continued.

    EDIT--rewatching the fight, he didn't do as well as I recalled, but he had Trigg in a crucifix and was basically thwarted by the ropes and a restart from the choke he was setting up. Nonetheless, Trigg is obviously a very tough opponent and that by no means indicates that Machado would have been a slouch in MMA. This wasn't so far off from the time that Trigg nearly beat the great Hayato Sakurai
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  12. TheMaster Take The Road To Reality

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    He was thwarted by the fact that Trigg escaped the cricifix it beat the stuffing out of him, it is shown even in the highlight.

    Trigg was serving him all night with knees whenever Machado tried to clinch, a KO or bad injury was inevitable.
    That said it was a gutsy performance but he was outmatched. That the risk when a big name rep of a style enters mma. He had a go and got out before the name could get damaged some more.

    We can add the being able to safely enter a clinch is clearly paramount for a grappler wanting to transition to fighting and a prime example shown in this vid.

    This is extremely impressive and widely overlooked. People assume that having a wrestling background mean you will dominate grappling but it is far more complex. The core attributes and skills at play are what counts and the variables change enough that you may well 'outwrestle' a much better wrestler in mma.
    Understanding these factors and how they change is thus of importance.
     
  13. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Clearly, the major issue was the ropes as regards the crucifix. That's undeniable. Trigg was very impressive, mostly outgrappling Machado, which is pretty amazing. But again, to take a single fight where a great BJJ practitioner lost in a game effort against one of the top fighters of his day (a guy who, again, around that time nearly beat Hayato Sakurai, an all-time great) to draw conclusions about the ability of high-level BJJ practitioners to succeed in MMA is unreasonable. It also doesn't really give Trigg due credit.
     

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