Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Headkicktoleg, Aug 25, 2018.
Damn, Anders just killed Williams while he did a technical get up.
Feels bad man
That's what you get for doing technical standups incorrectly.
Came to post this
I guess it is a risky move in an MMA setting cause you're not a downed opponent while in the middle of doing a technical standup.
You are a not a downed opponent only if you do it in the old school way.
If you keep you knee on the mat like you should (Ryan Hall shows this on his Defensive guard DVD) you are both a downed opponent and actually in balance once you stand up.
Once again it's a demonstration that fundamentals where utter trash in the past.
He tried to stand up with his opponent right over him - was never going to end well.
This makes me kinda sad. I started bjj and first learned the technical standup from one of Tim's coaches.
Yeah I noticed that on a second viewing. He didn't create any distance before doing it.
I'd like to see the Ryan Hall manner.
I think bailing on the stand up and getting back to a defensive Position is important. It was a mistake. A very costly one.. it’s making me rethink some things.
I just watch the fight and looked like he didn't manage the distance at all. Opponent was basically just standing right over him. I'm sure fatigue was a factor.
One of the better technical stand up so I remember is actually RiRkson versus funaki. Rickson kept him back with heel kicks to the knees and only did the stand up when there was adequate distance.
- Fedor demonstrates how to technical stand up from a different situations.
You have to get to the knee first otherwise you either are terribly off balance or the move is super slow.
It's super sad how youtube is filled to the brink with turds showing it wrong.
You’re better off sitting and grabbing a leg if they are that close. Homeboy just rushed it lmao
The old school standup is far superior to the new method as it pertains to freestyle fighting. IMO.
The new wave technical standup leaves your face wide open to getting smashed. Not to mention with the old school style you create distance with the kick to the leg or up kick before executing the stand up.
Did you try the new way?
I'm not an MMA fighters (but a lot of elite level MMA guys do use the new method). Team Alpha male was training the new method in the TUF Ryan Hall fought.
So wait now I'm confused which is the old and which is the new.
Also, I think the incorrect execution of a move speaks more about the execution than the move itself
Yes I have drilled the new way. The one where you hip up into combat base is what I assume everyone is referring to. Which is good if your opponent is already getting on top of you If there is any distance between you and your opponent then hiping up leading with your face is a horrible idea.
That's how I see it too.
The two variations are not right and wrong. They are just two different ways for two different types of situations.
The old school way is meant for a no rules style fight where the unified MMA rules do not exist. There is no concept of a downed opponent to protect you. So if you stay down right in front of your opponent, you're going to take some knees or soccer kicks. Hence why that old school way prioritizes immediate distance over posture and base.
The new school way takes advantage of the modern MMA rules to give you a better base faster. It also works way better for pure grappling where strikes are not a factor.
I generally do the new school way, although I usually skip the using my knee as base part if I possibly can. Whether I can or not depends on what part of my arm I have available to start with. If I can use my hand, I'll skip the knee and just go straight back to my toes. If I need to use my elbow (or even just the shoulder), I usually have to touch the knee a bit to complete it. It's just a brief touch when I use my elbow; with the shoulder, the knee is a pretty substantial part of my intermediate base.
It's faster without touching the knee. Then you just land in what is the same as a level change position in wrestling right before a shot. I coach a lot of my guys with good wrestling backgrounds to consider pulling butterfly guard and working to set up the new school standup with no knee touch into an immediate shot. This catches a lot of pure BJJ guys by surprise and is pretty hard to stop against a good wrestler. The modern standing pass game is a bit vulnerable to this strategy.
That's the thing about these old school/new school wars too. A lot of it just depends on the current meta game that is going on at the time.
Old school guard passes were mainly from the "knees" (not really from the knees but I'll just say that because everyone knows what I'm talking about then). It's that low crushing pass style.
Then modern guards became developed to counter this. They got so effective that the passes needed to change. Then new school standing passes with more movement and redirection got popular.
Now that the leg lock meta game is popular, suddenly those standing passes aren't so good anymore. Now the wisdom of the so called useless old school passing style is more apparent. The low crushing pass style protects your legs much better than more fluid upright passing.
These things go in cycles. They always have and probably always will. It's important to learn the old school stuff too because it tends to come back in a big way once the meta game shifts as it tends to do every 5-10 years or so.
No matter what stand up your doing, if you try to stand in the wrong distance and your opponent times you right... well this happens
I don't really understand what you're trying to say here regarding the old stand up under the old school rules. I understand the assertion that the "new school" stand up is scarier in an old-rule context. But even with the old school stand up under the old school rules, aren't you just as susceptible to getting your head kicked off? I don't really see how the "old-school" way of backing up and extracting your leg would make much of a difference. Is it the lack of upkicks/knee kicks what you're talking about? I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
With the old school stand-up maybe your face is a little more protected because you are looking at the floor and not you opponent.
You can upkick/knee kick the same with the new-school way too.
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