Tbol have the longest half life of any substance?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Ravenwing, Jan 23, 2019.

  1. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing Yellow Belt

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    Is there any doubt jon jones is still juicing or could there really still be traces of this metabolite that where the same amounts 2 years ago as it is now?

    I have never heard of any substance with a half life like this beside maybe uranium?
     
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  2. yekmurat

    yekmurat Silver Belt

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    You will get a lot of answers on Sherdog

















    and all of them will be wrong...
     
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  3. bigwaverider

    bigwaverider ✌️ SHOOP MOD ✌️ Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  4. filthynumber1

    filthynumber1 Silver Belt

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    Apparently
     
  5. Local Plata

    Local Plata Hitchslap Belt

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    It's extremely unlikely and not backed by much in the way of science. Probably much more likely Jones really is a PED used.
     
  6. GhostPunch

    GhostPunch You'll Never See it Coming

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    Studies have shown ancient Egyptian bodybuilders DNA was tested and the results were positive for T-Bol pulsing metabolites.
     
  7. nanika

    nanika Brown Belt

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    its impossible to prove something did not happen.

    chemical half life and biological half life are different things that operate on the same numerical principle.

    there has been no breaking news in the past 15 minutes since the last thread on this subject was posted.

    we will never know for sure what the fuck happened. the simplest is that jon jones is a cheat. he has proven to be a cheat in the past in just about every possible way.
     
  8. Dana's Moonface

    Dana's Moonface Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    As far as I'm aware it's not even close.

    Deca (nandrolone) most likely has the longest detection time.

    It certainly has the longest half life. As far as I'm aware it has a half life of around 15 days!

    Tbol is an oral. Yeah detection times are most likely more sensitive now, but I doubt an oral REALLY stays in the system that long.
     
  9. Dana's Moonface

    Dana's Moonface Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Haha very good!

    Bones Jones (pun intended) will be dug up in a billion years and Scientists will find a postivive T-Bol reading!!
     
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  10. CannotWin

    CannotWin Brown Belt

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    Only in metabolisms of 50 year-old scientists and 31 elite MMA athletes. Very narrow range.
     
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  11. Pacemaker Joe

    Pacemaker Joe Silver Belt

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    Nandrolone is supposed to be really bad too, well over a year.
    edit: I mean it's detectable for over a year, not that it's half life in the body is that long.

    The problem is the lack of excretion studies that have been done of a lot of the PEDs. In a lot of cases, it's simply not known how long a drug will stay in your system for, which is what caused the fuck ups with all the Russians a couple years ago with meldonium.

    Whether Jones's excuse is legit or USADA's doing him a favor, I have no idea.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  12. ocean size

    ocean size Black Belt

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    Nah some pollutants that are super stable and not metabolised once they lodge in a fat cell and really like to stick to lipids can last for a long time. Some PCBs have a half life of more than a decade.

    Based on general guidelines for how long a given molecule should be in the body and how readily metabolised, it makes sense M3 could last a while, but I don't think it should be decades. However you have to actually do the study to really know.
     
  13. ocean size

    ocean size Black Belt

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    You have to consider how many metabolites of other common andro steroids are chlorinated though, the tbol metabolites retain the Cl molecule - and Clomifene was the drug where they actually studied how long a metabolite lasted and it was at least hundreds of days.

    Steroids are pretty similar with just a few small changes between them, metabolites of many drugs are going to get metabolised into something that is processed through normal steroid metabolism or peed out readily.
     
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  14. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing Yellow Belt

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    So according to the tests, Jon Jones had More turinabol in his system Fight night than he did in that dec 10 failed test?

    How?!
     
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  15. Pancake Sprawl

    Pancake Sprawl WAR IGOR!!!11

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  16. TheScorpionDude

    TheScorpionDude Get over here! ~~~~~~~~~~~~==>

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    Much more likely ?

    At this point I think that words like "likely" should not be used at all.

    He is 100% the biggest cheater ever in any sport.

    5 tests in a row..... and some before that.

    I mean how is watching him fight fun anymore...
     
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  17. Bookerman

    Bookerman Green Belt

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    Genuinely think this could be a cover to make the pre fight debacle seem plausible. If he didn’t test postive for it after all the 7 year bullshit they talked it would look more suspect if he was clear.
     
  18. Ravenwing

    Ravenwing Yellow Belt

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    They could have said 10 picograms then if they really wanted it to sound plausible.

    Not more of the metabolite on a test a month after
     
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  19. krelianx

    krelianx Silver Belt

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    The half-life of a substance is not the same as the lasting duration of every metabolite of the substance. These are two different things. The half-life of a substance tells you its rate of decay, and can be used to determine the time frame within which it will be detectable as an integral molecular compound. A metabolite is a compound resulting from the metabolic process and chemical pathway to which the substance(s) is related, in this case the compound "M3", which is C26H35ClO9. It obtains when tbol is subject to Hydroxylation and Glucuronidation. Here's a helpful diagram of the chemical reaction-pathways for tbol and its metabolites:

    turbnal.jpg

    Nobody is claiming the half-life of tbol is identical to that of its metabolites. That would be nonsense, because different metabolites have different half lives, and these are different from the base substance. That's the entire point: M3 seems to behave thus unusually. You could ask a chemist why this metabolite in particular would be more resilient to decay.

    The correct question is: what other metabolites of banned substances have similar lingering time-frames?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  20. Pacemaker Joe

    Pacemaker Joe Silver Belt

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    dehydration from the weight cut pulls it out of his body. That's the theory, anyway.
     

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