Taylor officially 100% insane?

[mozfonky]

In my estimation, just my opinion, something was not right. Just like the guy in "Into The Wild". People aren't always in touch with some of the stuff inside of them and it can lead to doing self-destructive shit without being conscious of it. I mean, with "Into The Wild", who the fuck wanders off into the woods with two tuna fish sandwiches? Somehow, people saw him as a romantic enough character to make a movie for but, sorry, the dude had problems. I wouldn't quite even characterize that as being nearly as bad as eating someone's heart but Tanner wasn't right. It was his life though and at least he didn't hurt anyone else.

 

[The Batkilt]

Tanner didn't just wander off though. He planned a route. He let people know. He took ample food and water. He didn't take enough gasoline for his bike. Hardly the same as just wandering off.

Tanner isn't the one psychoanalyzing others online based on their own preconceptions and opinions. Because he's dead, obviously. But he might reckon anyone posting stuff like that is out there.

 

[mozfonky]

he couldn't have planned it that well if he ended up a corpse. I watched the docu on it too, he tried to find some spring which he didn't know had dried up. Self-destructive people do risky shit, whether it's drugs and alcohol, driving, or skydiving. You know, death is nothing to play around with, we'll all get a long oppurtunity at it, no reason to push it.

 

[Frank23]

This is sad.

 

[The Batkilt]

Miscalculating how much gasoline to take equates to being out there. Alrighty.

Everyone dies. "Don't court death" is a stupid sentiment when you can get hit by a bus tomorrow. There's no such thing as a risk free live. If people who challenge themselves and take risks are nuts, what does that make those too cautious to? They don't end up any less dead in the end.

 

[ironfist05]

I don't really know quite what to put it to, some MMA guys I think have issues from childhood, maybe they were bullied or poorly parented or maybe it's just mental illness. I don't know. Boxers,like camacho, tend to do stupid shit like he did when he fell through the roof at a computer store, ended up peeing in the store. I can't see any real logic to that, or even any real malintent. He just wanted his computer back and not having any impulse control he just went and tried to get it himself. Now, in MMA you get that kind of shit like that guy who wandered off into the desert by himself and died and the other guy who was eating someone's heart. Personally, when you are working out and placing yourself somewhat at someone's mercy, you don't want some psycho who might bust your knee when you're just doing a drill. Irresponsible, but with money being the only thing the owners care about what do you expect? No kind of screening or direction as far as anything.

I think that that's going a little far. I wouldn't chalk it up to mental illness or anything, my guess is that it's more of an image thing; the ridiculous "violent alpha male" thing in the gym (something which ironically seems to effect TAM very little), the shitty nu metal which is often associated with MMA, the "just bleed" fanbase. It's a relatively wealthy sport, at least in the US, maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe the guys who do it are so unskilled in each individual art that they don't appreciate them for the arts sake, so the idea of choking a guy out or punching him to death seems less scary to them. I really can't explain it, but it has unfortunately led to one of the most embarrassing sports cultures I can think of.

for the record, Evan Tanner was by all accounts one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. He had substance abuse issues, so maybe that's where his spirituality came from, and he obviously like the environment, but no, there was nothing wrong with him. At least not in a way that effected others negatively.

 

[ironfist05]

he couldn't have planned it that well if he ended up a corpse. I watched the docu on it too, he tried to find some spring which he didn't know had dried up. Self-destructive people do risky shit, whether it's drugs and alcohol, driving, or skydiving. You know, death is nothing to play around with, we'll all get a long oppurtunity at it, no reason to push it.

Moz, I agree with your overall point, but you're grasping for straws here here with Tanner. Tanner was a nice guy who liked to go out in the woods. He made a minor miscalculation which unfortunately resulted in his death. If wanting to be in the woods equates to a crazed dance with death, then anybody who goes for a hike is a psycho. This guy wasn't harmful to anybody, he wasn't Valero or War Machine. At worst, he had his head a bit in the clouds, and that's something that effects all of us sometimes.

 

[mozfonky]

Moz, I agree with your overall point, but you're grasping for straws here here with Tanner. Tanner was a nice guy who liked to go out in the woods. He made a minor miscalculation which unfortunately resulted in his death. If wanting to be in the woods equates to a crazed dance with death, then anybody who goes for a hike is a psycho. This guy wasn't harmful to anybody, he wasn't Valero or War Machine. At worst, he had his head a bit in the clouds, and that's something that effects all of us sometimes.

I could very well be wrong, I don't know everything. All I can say is that when I heard about Tanner and what happened, my thoughts did go in the direction of how nutty some of these MMA guys are. Yes he seemed like a nice guy, nice guys can be toubled too. Before I knew any of the facts, that's just where my mind goes based on knowing some of these guys, and it's where my mind goes everytime I hear about something crazy happening, and you gotta admit, it's quite frequent.

 

[mozfonky]

Miscalculating how much gasoline to take equates to being out there. Alrighty.

Everyone dies. "Don't court death" is a stupid sentiment when you can get hit by a bus tomorrow. There's no such thing as a risk free live. If people who challenge themselves and take risks are nuts, what does that make those too cautious to? They don't end up any less dead in the end.

you're missing my point, forget about Tanner for a minute. I'm talking about being self-destructive and lots of people are, and lots of people are dead because of it. I understand it, hell I'm self-destructive myself, only I'm circumspect about it. Many times I've done things and think "that was just crazy" and if you're not careful, that kind of in the moment living can ruin you. You have to be able to see the big picture, I'm sure it saved me from a lot of pain. Ever hear of a "Death Wish" that's what I'm talking about, now, how that applies or doesn't to Tanner I don't know, and probably you don't either but it is a real thing.

 

[The Batkilt]

I'm not missing your point. I disagreed with the characterization of Tanner as "the guy who wandered off into the desert and died," as it's misleading and inaccurate. Tanner was the point U responded to.

 

[mozfonky]

ok, well you are not getting my interpretation of what happened, it's sad as hell but I've known guys with death wishes before, they end up in and out of hospitals, in and out of trouble and often dead. My interpretation of tanner is that's what happened, I could be wrong. Let's face it, anyone who does fighting is self-destructive to one degree or another (I'm guilty). In Ali's autobiography he wrote that he agreed with psychologists who claimed that boxers have self-hate. I don't see how that's a stretch and I can tell you, i've always kept mine in check, not that I haven't done some incredibly stupid shit myself. So much so that it scared me, and even still, at my age, I could end up in a life and death brawl too easy for comfort. The key for is being aware and taking steps not to be in those situations that would encourage that impulse because once you get yourself in a situation it's much harder to avoid.

 

[jackcell]

How about the fact that he had a gun at a Martin Luther King JR. day parade? That's more than a little against what King stood for.

 

[ironfist05]

ok, well you are not getting my interpretation of what happened, it's sad as hell but I've known guys with death wishes before, they end up in and out of hospitals, in and out of trouble and often dead. My interpretation of tanner is that's what happened, I could be wrong. Let's face it, anyone who does fighting is self-destructive to one degree or another (I'm guilty). In Ali's autobiography he wrote that he agreed with psychologists who claimed that boxers have self-hate. I don't see how that's a stretch and I can tell you, i've always kept mine in check, not that I haven't done some incredibly stupid shit myself. So much so that it scared me, and even still, at my age, I could end up in a life and death brawl too easy for comfort. The key for is being aware and taking steps not to be in those situations that would encourage that impulse because once you get yourself in a situation it's much harder to avoid.

While I'll agree that it takes a certain type of person to fight, you have to imagine risk/reward here too. Even if it's hard to go up in the ranks in boxing, it's theoretically possible. Nobody enters boxing thinking "yeah I'm going to be a can" they all have at least some vision, whether it's a lineal title or being the best guy that the local bar likes to hire. In the end, if supplemented with a side job, it offers a way up, one which can be increased at the boxers chosen rate (to give an example: if you're a can, don't train, take a quick beating, collect money; if you show real promise, ease yourself into boxing, see how good you really are, keep your job then jump to boxing full time if the opportunity presents itself). Amateur credentials also help establish connections. You can quit boxing anytime and come back. You can't quit your job and then beg your old boss for the job.

 

[mozfonky]

While I'll agree that it takes a certain type of person to fight, you have to imagine risk/reward here too. Even if it's hard to go up in the ranks in boxing, it's theoretically possible. Nobody enters boxing thinking "yeah I'm going to be a can" they all have at least some vision, whether it's a lineal title or being the best guy that the local bar likes to hire. In the end, if supplemented with a side job, it offers a way up, one which can be increased at the boxers chosen rate (to give an example: if you're a can, don't train, take a quick beating, collect money; if you show real promise, ease yourself into boxing, see how good you really are, keep your job then jump to boxing full time if the opportunity presents itself). Amateur credentials also help establish connections. You can quit boxing anytime and come back. You can't quit your job and then beg your old boss for the job.

yes, and I've known several "cans" for lack of a better term. The ones I know are super nice guys, what I don't really see these guys doing is thinking long term. It's stuff that they don't consider and they take permanent damage because of it. I always hate to say it but lots of fighters just let themselves get used. Even there though, these guys are decent, nice, warm guys, not quite like some of these other guys I'm talking about.

 

[The Batkilt]

ok, well you are not getting my interpretation of what happened, it's sad as hell but I've known guys with death wishes before, they end up in and out of hospitals, in and out of trouble and often dead. My interpretation of tanner is that's what happened, I could be wrong. Let's face it, anyone who does fighting is self-destructive to one degree or another (I'm guilty). In Ali's autobiography he wrote that he agreed with psychologists who claimed that boxers have self-hate. I don't see how that's a stretch and I can tell you, i've always kept mine in check, not that I haven't done some incredibly stupid shit myself. So much so that it scared me, and even still, at my age, I could end up in a life and death brawl too easy for comfort. The key for is being aware and taking steps not to be in those situations that would encourage that impulse because once you get yourself in a situation it's much harder to avoid.

Probably because your "interpretation" is misleading so you can fit it in with the "crazy" argument you were trying to make. Tanner just did not wander off into a desert. It's not open to interpretation. It was planned; ergo not just wandering off. He took supplies and folk knew where he was going. He made a mistake which was ultimately fatal. I do not think "wandering off" means what you think it means.

Your psychoanalyzing of him isn't relevant to his death. And you're not qualified to do so.

Stop trying to shoehorn it into your "MMA guys are weird, man" stuff.

 

[ironfist05]

yes, and I've known several "cans" for lack of a better term. The ones I know are super nice guys, what I don't really see these guys doing is thinking long term. It's stuff that they don't consider and they take permanent damage because of it. I always hate to say it but lots of fighters just let themselves get used. Even there though, these guys are decent, nice, warm guys, not quite like some of these other guys I'm talking about.

that's the thing with some of these cans (probably not all of them, but at least a few of them). What they do is actually relatively low risk compared to serious boxing. I'm sure a lot of them don't train, at least not a lot, so there's no risk of gym damage (which is in my eyes the source of a lot of boxing damage). They sign up for a fight every few weeks to make a quick paycheck, probably don't care, go down without too much of a fight. Usually they face equally talentless guys, so the damage is generally fairly minimal.

Reggie Strickland is famous for this. 66-276-17. He was fighter literally there just to lose. He was once asked how he trains for his fights and merely responded "I don't." That's the attitude of the guys I'm thinking of. Fight other cans for relatively low paychecks, don't take too much damage, supplement another job you have. Maybe an up and comer for a bigger paycheck. Remain a local favorite, fight at the bar every once in a while for a free meal and a few hundred. Is it physically damaging? yes, for sure, but for guys with education as poor as a lot of these guys, ALL of their alternatives are physically damaging. Construction worker, miner, factory worker, whatever. It's all dangerous. These aren't guys with PHDs who chose low level boxing over a job at wall street. These are guys who fight the occasional fight so that they don't have to work two jobs, and with minimal training required, the bodily damage is probably nowhere near as much as top level boxers.

 

[mozfonky]

Probably because your "interpretation" is misleading so you can fit it in with the "crazy" argument you were trying to make. Tanner just did not wander off into a desert. It's not open to interpretation. It was planned; ergo not just wandering off. He took supplies and folk knew where he was going. He made a mistake which was ultimately fatal. I do not think "wandering off" means what you think it means.

Your psychoanalyzing of him isn't relevant to his death. And you're not qualified to do so.

Stop trying to shoehorn it into your "MMA guys are weird, man" stuff.

do you remember how people were worried before he even took that trip? I remember something foreboding on Yahoo about an MMA fighter who I'd never heard of who might "never make it back" or words to that effect. I don't think I'm the only one who sees something off in that. Just look up some of the articles before he did it, they must be out there.

 

[mozfonky]

that's the thing with some of these cans (probably not all of them, but at least a few of them). What they do is actually relatively low risk compared to serious boxing. I'm sure a lot of them don't train, at least not a lot, so there's no risk of gym damage (which is in my eyes the source of a lot of boxing damage). They sign up for a fight every few weeks to make a quick paycheck, probably don't care, go down without too much of a fight. Usually they face equally talentless guys, so the damage is generally fairly minimal.

Reggie Strickland is famous for this. 66-276-17. He was fighter literally there just to lose. He was once asked how he trains for his fights and merely responded "I don't." That's the attitude of the guys I'm thinking of. Fight other cans for relatively low paychecks, don't take too much damage, supplement another job you have. Maybe an up and comer for a bigger paycheck. Remain a local favorite, fight at the bar every once in a while for a free meal and a few hundred. Is it physically damaging? yes, for sure, but for guys with education as poor as a lot of these guys, ALL of their alternatives are physically damaging. Construction worker, miner, factory worker, whatever. It's all dangerous. These aren't guys with PHDs who chose low level boxing over a job at wall street. These are guys who fight the occasional fight so that they don't have to work two jobs, and with minimal training required, the bodily damage is probably nowhere near as much as top level boxers.

I know a guy named Al Foster, he was a "can" (again for lack of a better term) who was a sparring partner for Duran for 3 years. He lost more than he won, fought all the top lightweights of his day outside of Duran and he was really damaged by it. Another guy was a fairly popular local guy who never made it much further than clubfighting. He trained properly I think. Talent has a ton to do with it, some guys without a lot of talent just want to fight. You'd really be surprised, these guys have some problems from the punishment. Everyone is different, people's tolerances are different, some people can take a lot, some people can't. like Ali said about his brother who boxed once "my brother hardly boxed at all and he's not right". The brain just isn't meant to absorb hard blows.

 

[MeBig]

This is what happens when someone's self-identity is wholly one thing, and that thing's end becomes near and imminent. I wish Taylor the luck in picking up the pieces and finding purpose in his life. Might as well throw this thread in Mayberry.

 

[The Batkilt]

do you remember how people were worried before he even took that trip? I remember something foreboding on Yahoo about an MMA fighter who I'd never heard of who might "never make it back" or words to that effect. I don't think I'm the only one who sees something off in that. Just look up some of the articles before he did it, they must be out there.

People were worried because he chose a tough route to trek on. Moz, you're fucking stretching to fit Tanner into your "those MMA guys are weird".

What next? He wore mismatching socks?