Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Iman Barlow, Aug 19, 2015.
Is this a good way to handicap yourself and keep your joints safe?
Refusing to take risks or not defending submission attempts?
I pretty much only verbally tap to joint locks. I fight with both hands until time comes to submit.
By lowering the criteria of a tap, my idea is not allow myself to even get near the danger zone. Basically I shut things down early.
I always tell people they should spend less time fighting a submission and more time learning what got them there.
People tap early because they don't know the submission or they don't trust you.
I'm saying I'm the one tapping early
That's what I'm going after
Just don't go full Mitrione.
There's a balance, IMO.
Obviously, you don't want to leave it to the point where you get injured because you didn't tap. But at the same time, you want to give your training partner an opportunity to "finish" the sub. If everyone tapped well before the sub was finished, then no one would learn what it takes to finish it.
However, I do agree with the people saying that you should concentrate less on defending a nearly finished sub and concentrate more on not getting stuck in that position in the first place.
I'd be willing to bet my account most in here will tap early to the higher belt who slaps on their favorite sub but fight tooth and nail if a white belt catches them in something legit.
save that shit for life or death until then tap early and dont get put there next time.
It's a balance man. If you tap too early you're doing a disservice to you and your partner. You because you don't get a chance to get into deep water and get comfortable there, let alone work resistance and escapes. And it's bad for your partner because they need to be able to feel what a strong armbar/guillotine/whatever feels like versus one that's not all the way there. You'll lose a feel for what's tight and what isn't, and you could easily start tapping to stuff that either isn't strong, or hasn't gotten there yet.
I mean obviously no one wants to tap too late and get injured, but you should fight until you know you've lost it. So don't hang out with your arm fully extended in an armbar as the pressure is coming, or as your vision is going tunnel during a rear naked choke, but fight and try to escape until you know it's too late.
As you get better you'll be able to ride the line better. You'll be able to sit in chokes and know about how long you've got, and you'll be able to be losing an armbar or kimura defense and still know how safe you are. Until then it's always better to lean on the side of keeping yourself safe, but tapping well before the danger zone seems too early IMO.
Its all about having good partners. You should be able to go flat out with someone and even if they pull hard and smash off grips they should apply joint locks slowly and with control.
I have no issues with tapping early to joint locks. People spend too much time worrying about the tap, IMO. I worry about how I ended up in a position where I needed to tap in the first place.
Am I not going to go into deep water and learn to fight out of there by doing so? Sure. But I'm focused on not getting there in the first place, so it's irrelevant. I'd equate it to guys who working on striking when rocked vs. guys who spend their time trying not to get hit in the first place.
That said, everyone's goals in BJJ are different. I'm not terribly interested in competition anymore, and so my priorities are going to be different than someone who is focused solely on competition.
That's what I'm going for too. I feel tapping early makes me more proactive with my defense
i used to do this a lot, but i started to realize i had a decent chance of escaping if i didnt tap immediately. it was just a matter of getting comfortable with rolling in the long term
There is 2 extremes.
You have the newbies that tap too late. They do not know how bad they can get injured etc... I usually just let go because I know how bad it can get and I want them to come back to train next week and not next month.
you have the newbies that tap too early because they are not aware that they can still trying to escape the sub a little bit longer.
When you start rolling for many years, it just depends on the mood. At the moment, I just cannot be bothered and I do not want to risk an injury so I tapped early on specific joint locks. Of course, my ego takes the beating.
But for choke subs, I am pretty sure one day I will get put to sleep.
I had shoulder surgery last fall. You get me in a north south kimura position, and my hand separates from my body- I'm tapping. You get that arm going backward in an armbar, I'm tapping.
On my other side, I'll fight harder, but once its gone, I'm tapping. No sense waiting for it to hurt as I know I was caught.
Heel hooks- especially since my gym isn't great at them, I'm tapping early. I also let them go as a lot of people don't realize the danger they are in.
Chokes- I gotta be fading to black, and have used all my escapes. No sense tapping early to chokes, as you have to tough them out sometime in order to use an escape.
On offense- I won't jack something up in practice. I'll let a joint lock go, and then tell the partner he was an idiot for not tapping in class. I'll put the same sumbitch unconscious for not tapping to a choke though.
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