Taking nothing from Ryan Hall's opponent, his inactivity was an unfair handicap

Thanks! With that said it's still confusing to me to picture it; it seems like the initial step to any imanari roll is shooting your "outside" hand "inside" the leg, whereas he was shooting the "inside" hand "outside" the leg, if that makes any sense. Maybe this is some new fangled entry the kids are into.


That's how Ryan Hall usually shoots into 50/50 from standing. You can see it in pretty much all of his fights that are finished by heel hook.
 
That's how Ryan Hall usually shoots into 50/50 from standing. You can see it in pretty much all of his fights that are finished by heel hook.

I don't know if it is:

Imanari/Backside 50/50
I think we're all pretty familiar with the imanari roll; is the same-side hand going inside the legs, palm up:
imanari-roll.png


And he also has a backside 50/50 entrance which is pretty similar, where he dives deeper, and shoots crossways hand inside the legs (this is in his instructional series as well, but is also what he hit on Penn):

hallpenn-backside-entry.png


There's also his slew of TUF victories, where he used his same side hand on the outside:

ryan-hall-outsideoutside.png

outsideoutside-2.png



In UFC 264 though, the cross ways hand and wrapping it around the outside of his opponent's leg.
ryan-hall.png


However, the problem seemed to be that Topuria instantly sprawled on it 14/15 times. The one time he didn't sprawl it out, they ended up in this weird spot:

ryanhall264success.png


Though then Topuria forced his way back on top and sprawled out yet again. What the hell he was up to with this move, I'm not sure, but it doesn't look like his 50/50 entries up to this point in my assessment.
 
He's kind of in position to hit this idea:

Kendall cross cartwheel



Ah, thanks!

Edit: I rewatched the fight having seen this video, and I'm personally convinced this move was his plan to deal with superior wrestling (the thought process being I can slip a punch, attempt the turn over, fail and get guard). It also makes sense why his attempts failed over and over. It seems to require a certain amount of connection from turtle (and/or the top guy's willingness to grab on), and an elbow grip, all of which were missing. Pulling bottom turtle as a tactical choice against a better wrestler is also apparently quite risky.
 
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Thanks! With that said it's still confusing to me to picture it; it seems like the initial step to any imanari roll is shooting your "outside" hand "inside" the leg, whereas he was shooting the "inside" hand "outside" the leg, if that makes any sense. Maybe this is some new fangled entry the kids are into.

I know dick about rolling heel hook entries but I also thought it looked different. I can see it being an alternative entry to the clip I posted but you'd also have to roll under the opponent which wasn't possible because Topuria kept sprawling and disengaging as you pointed out. FWIW after proclaiming Hall was hunting for a heel hook, Rogan also said "what a wild way of targeting the leg. It looks ass backwards but that's just how good Ryan Hall is."

Non-company man translation: "I have no idea WTF this guy is doing but I better say something to make it sound cool and hype the fight."
 
In UFC 264 though, the cross ways hand and wrapping it around the outside of his opponent's leg.
ryan-hall.png


However, the problem seemed to be that Topuria instantly sprawled on it 14/15 times. The one time he didn't sprawl it out, they ended up in this weird spot:

ryanhall264success.png


Though then Topuria forced his way back on top and sprawled out yet again. What the hell he was up to with this move, I'm not sure, but it doesn't look like his 50/50 entries up to this point in my assessment.


Indeed it is not like his other 50/50 entries, on that part you are quite right. It is in fact a very special technique that one might observe only comes out in special circumstances, which is called, 'gun shyness'.
 
Indeed it is not like his other 50/50 entries, on that part you are quite right. It is in fact a very special technique that one might observe only comes out in special circumstances, which is called, 'gun shyness'.
Hall claims he broke his hand and the start with the only punch he threw. He looked super hesitant.
 
Elite levels guy like Roger have done well at holding guys down.
You kind of have to be able to punch people to really progress while keeping them down. In pure grappling (especially nogi) opening say the closed guard is difficult without giving up takedown opportunities.

There has been no one as good as Maia on controlling people n the ground… Roger was extremely good too…
 
A couple of years ago, John danahers guys were leg locking everybody in those submission only competition and since then, he has come out with dvds and other teams have reverse engineered the leg lock game and came up with good defense to it. Mma is always behind and doesn’t always keep up with bjj innovations because most of it is only applicable in a bjj competition and doesn’t translate well in mma.

When Ryan hall started leg locking people with ease a lot of use grapplers were really excited but it really was just a matter of time for an mma fighter to learn the proper leg lock defense and game plan around Ryan halls style. I kind of think Ryan hall should have implemented the scissor sweep to get guys down. I’m not sure how to transition from that position to 50/50 but I’m sure he could have figured it out. I think hall should also implement so capoeira into his game so he can kick guys in a different manner or transition to a takedown or leg lock
 
...I won't say Hall was beaten by inactivity. But I feel like the UFC, largely because of their apathy towards him, unfairly imposed what was tantamount to an exile from the sport during crucial years of his fighting life. Ryan Hall is no spring chicken. Each year of his career, an irretrievable part of his peak is gone. I mean, as a 40-year old, I can say that the jump from 34 to 36 is no joke.

That Spanish dude did great, but I just feel like, at the same time, the UFC also sort of defeated Ryan Hall by calling on the unbeatable Father Time. Sort of the same way super middleweight women boxers beat Veronica Simmons--avoiding her for so long she got too rusty to keep fighting. Now what happened to Hall isn't as extreme as that, but I feel like it was halfway there.

I disagree. Hall is an unathletic one-trick pony. That inverted rolling shit can't work every time and he looked absolutely ridiculous in that fight.
 
Two things we are sorely lacking in our community. How to get the fight where we want it to be and how to make sure we keep it there. 1. Finishing the takedown. 2. Securing the position(keeping opponents grounded when all they want to do is stand up).

whoa whoa whoa...you mean like...gi grappling...with an emphasis on takedown superiority and ground control? like throwing people flat on their back and pinning them? but with chokes and armbars?
 
I disagree. Hall is an unathletic one-trick pony. That inverted rolling shit can't work every time and he looked absolutely ridiculous in that fight.
Well, I disagree with your disagreement. I also do think that you are a little dismissive towards rolling submission entries and dynamic entries in general; I recall you saying that you couldn't see a scissor takedown ever working on you. Stuff like scissors takedowns or Imanari rolls aren't junk moves anymore than a funk roll or a broomstick is a junk move in wrestling. They're essentially just a certain class of takedowns, no better or worse than the person utilizing them.
 
I think hall should also implement so capoeira into his game so he can kick guys in a different manner or transition to a takedown or leg lock
A lot of the guys who use rolling and spinning entries have a background in breakdancing or capoeira; Riley Bodycomb does, for example. But yeah, I think that'd be a great fit for him.
 
Well, I disagree with your disagreement. I also do think that you are a little dismissive towards rolling submission entries and dynamic entries in general; I recall you saying that you couldn't see a scissor takedown ever working on you. Stuff like scissors takedowns or Imanari rolls aren't junk moves anymore than a funk roll or a broomstick is a junk move in wrestling. They're essentially just a certain class of takedowns, no better or worse than the person utilizing them.

I think you are mistaking me for someone else because I never mentioned the scisor takedown, except for the thread where that asshole Flavio Canto injured his apanyent with a kani basami.

That imanari roll is not a shit move - what I meant is that Hall looked like ridiculous spamming that shit 10 times after it didn't work the first 9 times.
 
I think you are mistaking me for someone else because I never mentioned the scisor takedown, except for the thread where that asshole Flavio Canto injured his apanyent with a kani basami.

That imanari roll is not a shit move - what I meant is that Hall looked like ridiculous spamming that shit 10 times after it didn't work the first 9 times.
Ooops, my bad bro. I remembered a guy who was hardcore into judo saying that. I was thinking it wasn't characteristic of you. My mistake. Well, hopefully the exchange actually happened with some Sherdogger and I didn't make the entire conversation up in my head.
 
Ooops, my bad bro. I remembered a guy who was hardcore into judo saying that. I was thinking it wasn't characteristic of you. My mistake. Well, hopefully the exchange actually happened with some Sherdogger and I didn't make the entire conversation up in my head.

All good, bro. Hope all is well with you.
 
whoa whoa whoa...you mean like...gi grappling...with an emphasis on takedown superiority and ground control? like throwing people flat on their back and pinning them? but with chokes and armbars?

No. Not gi grappling, and definitely not a limited takedown artform like Judo, heavily reliant on gi grips and upright stance to have any chance of success.

Perhaps more a hybrid of freestyle and Greco-Roman.
 
No. Not gi grappling, and definitely not a limited takedown artform like Judo, heavily reliant on gi grips and upright stance to have any chance of success.

Perhaps more a hybrid of freestyle and Greco-Roman.

^ tell me you've never played Judo without telling me you've never played Judo
 
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