Taking nothing from Ryan Hall's opponent, his inactivity was an unfair handicap

[Kforcer]

...I won't say Hall was beaten by inactivity. But I feel like the UFC, largely because of their apathy towards him, unfairly imposed what was tantamount to an exile from the sport during crucial years of his fighting life. Ryan Hall is no spring chicken. Each year of his career, an irretrievable part of his peak is gone. I mean, as a 40-year old, I can say that the jump from 34 to 36 is no joke.

That Spanish dude did great, but I just feel like, at the same time, the UFC also sort of defeated Ryan Hall by calling on the unbeatable Father Time. Sort of the same way super middleweight women boxers beat Veronica Simmons--avoiding her for so long she got too rusty to keep fighting. Now what happened to Hall isn't as extreme as that, but I feel like it was halfway there.

 

[rmongler]

I share the sentiment. At the same time though, Hall himself is also at least partially responsible for not having more fights.

Noone wanted to fight Khabib either, but he had no problem just crushing cans until it could no longer be remotely justified.

 

[Kforcer]

I share the sentiment. At the same time though, Hall himself is also at least partially responsible for not having more fights.

Noone wanted to fight Khabib either, but he had no problem just crushing cans until it could no longer be remotely justified.

Yeah, good point.

 

[Kratos94]

His inactivity definitely did not help him; however, nor did the choice of opponent.

Topuria was always going to be a horrible match-up for Hall; deadly striking; a much better wrestler; a willing grappler (also a BJJ blackbelt; albeit - not at Hall's level; stronger; faster; more athletic and he is the UFC's brightest prospect. Outside of his failed Imanari attempts, he literally had no way of getting Topuria to grapple with him.

Hall is fun to watch (kind of), but who is on the Topuria train? I have been onboard for a while now.

 

[yetanother]

Ryan Hall should just go to bjj and try to prove that he is as good as he claims to be.
If you don't want to trade blows or shoot for takedowns and loose there is no point whatsoever for you to fight in mma. Why compete in a sport that adds stuff you are not willing to do on top of jiu jitsu?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

What the fuxk was he trying to do? Obviously an entry to a leg lock, but it failed like 10 times… did he not expect somehow, the other dude was going to time him failed the entry? He wasn’t fighting some can…

 

[TheMaster]

He looked ridiculous, rolling around doing that capoeria imanari sushi roll shit and flailing his legs around, only to get KTFO from a guard to side control transition.

Time to switch to IBJJF rules or lay off the BJJ training and do more wrestling and striking if he wants to fight.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

Most people consider the fight pathetic. Just like Imanari last week or so ago, there will be a whole contingent of people, especially in MMA, that find this style horrible, and I happen to agree with them.

As far as the UFC nuking his career, I don’t agree. He was given tailor made fights up until tonight. There is a lot of turnover in the UFC, too, with newer guys fighting every year, people who would’ve taken the fight against him. Moreover, this was his ceiling and I think it was always going to be the case — he has had years to work on some sort of offensive game that doesn’t involve rolling, yet he hasn’t shown that he has the ability or want to engage in such a fight. Pure rolling. Even the old school leg-lockers of MMA would try something different during the fight (except the aforementioned Imanari, who stinks up the place if he doesn’t get a submission relatively quickly).

I still think he can do something against UFC caliber fighters, just hope he isn’t cut (probably will be).

 

[sb413197]

What the fuxk was he trying to do? Obviously an entry to a leg lock, but it failed like 10 times… did he not expect somehow, the other dude was going to time him failed the entry? He wasn’t fighting some can…

Yeah, the issue with that kind of open guard/inverting/spinny BJJ is that the opponent can just disengage. You can't do that in BJJ but in MMA it's no problem.

I would rather see him play more of a sticky guard game in MMA, ala Gordon Ryan or especially Bernardo Faria, where disengaging is tough. Pulling half or deep half might be a lot harder to disengage from, and then setting up his leglocks from there. Might not be as fast or easy but I bet it would work better in an MMA context, and probably be safer. Ideal would be pulling closed guard and I know he used to be famous for his triangle, maybe that could still be an option.

 

[Kforcer]

Most people consider the fight pathetic. Just like Imanari last week or so ago, there will be a whole contingent of people, especially in MMA, that find this style horrible, and I happen to agree with them.

As far as the UFC nuking his career, I don’t agree. He was given tailor made fights up until tonight. There is a lot of turnover in the UFC, too, with newer guys fighting every year, people who would’ve taken the fight against him. Moreover, this was his ceiling and I think it was always going to be the case — he has had years to work on some sort of offensive game that doesn’t involve rolling, yet he hasn’t shown that he has the ability or want to engage in such a fight. Pure rolling. Even the old school leg-lockers of MMA would try something different during the fight (except the aforementioned Imanari, who stinks up the place if he doesn’t get a submission relatively quickly).

I still think he can do something against UFC caliber fighters, just hope he isn’t cut (probably will be).

That wasn't Imanari that stunk up the joint. For so much of the fight, Kenta was simply circling away from Imanari. He was afraid to pursue the fight against him in anyway that might lead to an engagement with Imanari on the ground. And Imanari has had plenty of exciting fights where he didn't get an immediate submission. Versus Mishima, Maeda, Taiki, Tomohiko Hori, Tokoro, none of those fights were stinkers. And I could think of many more, but those are just a few. Kenta had an almost totally defensive effort. That's another subject though, I guess.

 

[ChickenBrother]

...I won't say Hall was beaten by inactivity. But I feel like the UFC, largely because of their apathy towards him, unfairly imposed what was tantamount to an exile from the sport during crucial years of his fighting life. Ryan Hall is no spring chicken. Each year of his career, an irretrievable part of his peak is gone. I mean, as a 40-year old, I can say that the jump from 34 to 36 is no joke.

That Spanish dude did great, but I just feel like, at the same time, the UFC also sort of defeated Ryan Hall by calling on the unbeatable Father Time. Sort of the same way super middleweight women boxers beat Veronica Simmons--avoiding her for so long she got too rusty to keep fighting. Now what happened to Hall isn't as extreme as that, but I feel like it was halfway there.

Ryan Hall should just go to bjj and try to prove that he is as good as he claims to be.
If you don't want to trade blows or shoot for takedowns and loose there is no point whatsoever for you to fight in mma. Why compete in a sport that adds stuff you are not willing to do on top of jiu jitsu?

What the fuxk was he trying to do? Obviously an entry to a leg lock, but it failed like 10 times… did he not expect somehow, the other dude was going to time him failed the entry? He wasn’t fighting some can…

To me this was the most interesting fight on the card and I wanted to see if Hall could force his game on someone like Topuria. What's amazing is he won TUF almost 6 years ago, had his first pro MMA fight back in 2006, yet still fights like a troll character in a video game playing with 3 broken controller buttons. He looked like f'ing Dr. Bosconovitch from Tekken 3:



Respect to the man and he's obviously elite at what he does. But this fight showed you can't take out actual contenders by relying only on BJJ with no TDs, while spamming the same spinning back kick and failed imanari attempt x 15, then staying on the ground and staring up at your opponent through your own ass.

 

[Ishaq]

Let's just be honest guys.

BJJ guys have no idea how to beat anyone with even a moderate takedown defense capability. This is a big big problem in our community where assuming the opponent is going to willingly engage with you in on the ground has become the norm.

Only until you get to an MMA situation and realize your opponent has no interest in willingly engaging with you on the ground.

Two things we are sorely lacking in our community. How to get the fight where we want it to be and how to make sure we keep it there. 1. Finishing the takedown. 2. Securing the position(keeping opponents grounded when all they want to do is stand up).

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Let's just be honest guys.

BJJ guys have no idea how to beat anyone with even a moderate takedown defense capability. This is a big big problem in our community where assuming the opponent is going to willingly engage with you in on the ground has become the norm.

Only until you get to an MMA situation and realize your opponent has no interest in willingly engaging with you on the ground.

Two things we are sorely lacking in our community. How to get the fight where we want it to be and how to make sure we keep it there. 1. Finishing the takedown. 2. Securing the position(keeping opponents grounded when all they want to do is stand up).

Well adcc is on to that, it’s a bitch to score a td under those rules

 

[yetanother]

Let's just be honest guys.

BJJ guys have no idea how to beat anyone with even a moderate takedown defense capability. This is a big big problem in our community where assuming the opponent is going to willingly engage with you in on the ground has become the norm.

Only until you get to an MMA situation and realize your opponent has no interest in willingly engaging with you on the ground.

Two things we are sorely lacking in our community. How to get the fight where we want it to be and how to make sure we keep it there. 1. Finishing the takedown. 2. Securing the position(keeping opponents grounded when all they want to do is stand up).

Elite levels guy like Roger have done well at holding guys down.
You kind of have to be able to punch people to really progress while keeping them down. In pure grappling (especially nogi) opening say the closed guard is difficult without giving up takedown opportunities.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

That wasn't Imanari that stunk up the joint. For so much of the fight, Kenta was simply circling away from Imanari. He was afraid to pursue the fight against him in anyway that might lead to an engagement with Imanari on the ground. And Imanari has had plenty of exciting fights where he didn't get an immediate submission. Versus Mishima, Maeda, Taiki, Tomohiko Hori, Tokoro, none of those fights were stinkers. And I could think of many more, but those are just a few. Kenta had an almost totally defensive effort. That's another subject though, I guess.

No, it wasn’t just Kenta’s fault when a guy butt flops over and over during a tournament. And it isnt the first time this has happened where fans were falling asleep to his style. I guess it doesn’t matter though. We can agree to disagree, and Imanari, like a knuckleballer in baseball, has longevity in comparison to his peers.

What was interesting about the Hall experiment was seeing a unique grappler trying to win at the top level. It’s nice to have diversity in styles, not just kickboxing with takedowns. Just wasn’t meant to be. With a style like his…guy should’ve taken as many fights as he could, for its a streaky style where decent opponents are going to be able to defeat you half of the time, especially when you have no takedowns.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

Context:

 

[panem-et-circenses]

Elite levels guy like Roger have done well at holding guys down.
You kind of have to be able to punch people to really progress while keeping them down. In pure grappling (especially nogi) opening say the closed guard is difficult without giving up takedown opportunities.

when Roger stepped up in completion, faced that next level guy above the Ron Waterman’s of the world, he had major issues, not unlike Hall. People are saying this Spanish guy is a future contender. You have to develop a stand-up game. Spamming spinning shit doesn’t work.

 

[Ishaq]

when Roger stepped up in completion, faced that next level guy above the Ron Waterman’s of the world, he had major issues, not unlike Hall. People are saying this Spanish guy is a future contender. You have to develop a stand-up game. Spamming spinning shit doesn’t work.

Khabib has shown us you don't need a striking game but you need the ability to force where you want the fight to be.

 

[Ishaq]

Elite levels guy like Roger have done well at holding guys down.
You kind of have to be able to punch people to really progress while keeping them down. In pure grappling (especially nogi) opening say the closed guard is difficult without giving up takedown opportunities.

Roger would struggle against any good college level wrestler because he simply won't be able to get the fight where he needs it to be.

 

[Kforcer]

No, it wasn’t just Kenta’s fault when a guy butt flops over and over during a tournament. And it isnt the first time this has happened where fans were falling asleep to his style. I guess it doesn’t matter though. We can agree to disagree, and Imanari, like a knuckleballer in baseball, has longevity in comparison to his peers.

What was interesting about the Hall experiment was seeing a unique grappler trying to win at the top level. It’s nice to have diversity in styles, not just kickboxing with takedowns. Just wasn’t meant to be. With a style like his…guy should’ve taken as many fights as he could, for its a streaky style where decent opponents are going to be able to defeat you half of the time, especially when you have no takedowns.

Far as Hall, I wouldn't call him a failure by any stretch. TUF winner, 4-1 in the UFC. He's no spring chicken, so I don't know quite where he goes from here, but he's done well for himself so far.

As far as Imanari, yes, it was Kenta's fault. He backed up and circled away the whole fight because he wanted to avoid engaging Imanari on the ground at all costs and didn't want to walk into any of his entries. You might not like Imanari, okay. But the fact is that the one retreating the entire fight was Kenta. He didn't deserve that decision. The man didn't engage at all, he backed away, he circled and did everything he could to avoid Imanari's grappling.