Taking judo instead of BJJ

[tysnw]

Any videos on the moves I so poorly described, assuming you managed to understand what they were?

I shall try.

1) Grab right hand with my left, put my left food outside of their right foot, put my right hand on their shoulder. I then swing my right leg between his right foot and my left one, pull his right hand down, and push with my right on his shoulder while pulling right foot out from under him with my right foot. Basically just pushing him backward while tripping him at the same time.

Osoto Gari

2) After grabbing his right wrist with my left hand, I use some footwork to wind up in front of him with my back facing him. I then hook his right arm in my right elbow/over my shoulder, and flip him over my shoulder. This is the throw most commonly associated with judo, and when done correctly is somewhat flashy.

Ippon Seio Nage

3) The same as #2, except that instead of hooking his arm and using it to throw him, I put my right hand around his waist and throw him. My instructor said the name of this means "body slam" or something like that.

O Goshi

4) This one's hard to explain, but I basically start out similarly to #2. I wind up putting my right foot behind his right foot, and put my right hand on his left shoulder. I then proceed to throw him. Not the best description, but I still don't quite understand how this one works.
Not sure.. Ouchi Gari I think

 

[danny_171]

Thank you for posting those gifs, I'm impressed you managed to make out what moves I was talking about. #1 looks slightly different then the one I learned, with the only real difference being that the blue guy's right hand was pulled down. We were supposed to be getting all of their weight onto their heel, and then taking their support away from them. Numbers 2 and 3 look spot on, and I intend to get those down since those were favorites. Number four isn't the one I learned, though my description was crap so I don't fault you for that one. For that one, I actually had my back to him, and put my right foot on the outside of his right foot.

Am I going to have to learn the Japanese names for all the techniques, or are there English slang terms that get thrown around as well? I realize that judo is a martial art steeped in tradition, but I'm not interested in learning all of the extraneous stuff; I want to learn some throws to incorporate into my clinch game. I don't mind learning all the traditions and names, but it's not something I'm looking for.

 

[Carrera26]

Honestly the names aren't really that hard. They are very literal descriptors and nearly all of the throws are the same few words rearranged.

O Soto Gari - Major Outside Reap
O Uchi Gari - Major Inner Reap
Ippon Seoi Nage - 1-arm Shoulder Throw
Morote Seoi Nage - 2-arm Shoulder Throw

Get to know about 10-20 words in Japanese and you'll have a clear idea on what any throw should look like just by the name alone. And if you ever want to have a clear conversation about Judo with someone, you simply have to learn the names.


I've put people into sparring right away, but I usually put big limitations on it or match them with an experienced partner who will be good enough to keep them BOTH from hurting themselves. You just need to get a taste and feel for balance and moving quickly to really understand what you need to to to make the throws workable. I often make warmup a "Sumo" drill where we all get in a 10' circle of belts and continuously try to either throw or push outside of the circle. The kids and lower belts can't use anything but their hands and movement, and the higher belts can sweep only. It's very hard work, lots of fun, and can quickly illustrate some very basic but utterly important concepts like posture.

 

[killakoy]

Thank you for posting those gifs, I'm impressed you managed to make out what moves I was talking about. #1 looks slightly different then the one I learned, with the only real difference being that the blue guy's right hand was pulled down. We were supposed to be getting all of their weight onto their heel, and then taking their support away from them. Numbers 2 and 3 look spot on, and I intend to get those down since those were favorites. Number four isn't the one I learned, though my description was crap so I don't fault you for that one. For that one, I actually had my back to him, and put my right foot on the outside of his right foot.

Am I going to have to learn the Japanese names for all the techniques, or are there English slang terms that get thrown around as well? I realize that judo is a martial art steeped in tradition, but I'm not interested in learning all of the extraneous stuff; I want to learn some throws to incorporate into my clinch game. I don't mind learning all the traditions and names, but it's not something I'm looking for.

#4 is kouchi gari.

It sounds like #1 is indeed osoto gari, but I'm not too sure how your instructor is explaining it. Frankly, I don't know any throw where you pull the sleeve grip downward to get your opponent on their heels. The sleeve pulling motion should be sideways across your chest so that when you enter, you're pulling your opponent diagonally backwards. This is what gets them on their heels.

In randori, Judoka will do a quick downwards pull to freeze their opponent (like a feint), but this is beyond the initial basics.

I also don't know instructors that will dive into live randori the 2nd practice without extensive break falling (ukemi). That's just asking for injuries.

... but do learn the Japanese names. You could translate them to English, but if you continue Judo you'll need to learn them eventually.

 

[Carrera26]

He may have just misunderstood the order of the Kuzushi on O Uchi Gari. There is indeed a downward pull, but only after you have them unblanaced on their heels and reaped.

 

[Disastorm]

If you expect to learn "it" in a few months then you're in for a real shocker. Like any other tool it can take YEARS to really develop it well enough to utilize it, so make a 5 year plan to include Judo and others, as well.

I agree with this guy, I've been doing judo for a number of months, and I still can only throw people in sparring if i get lucky.

 

[danny_171]

I'm afraid the fourth throw I learned wasn't the kouchi gari. Let me try and explain it again

After grabbing his right wrist with my left hand and using my right hand to grab him behind his left shoulder, I use some footwork to wind up in front of him with my back facing him. I then place my right foot outside of this right foot, almost behind it. I then proceed to throw him in the direction that we're both facing. He sort of trips over my foot. It's awkward to describe because it felt really weird doing it. If that sounds familiar, let me know what you think it is. If not, no worries.

Also, after waking up today, I noticed I had some whiplash from one of the throws where I wasn't quite ready for it and my head snapped back. Is this common, and should I be worried? It's nothing major and I'm quite used to soreness from training, but hearing from a judoka would ease my mind a bit.

 

[Oliver Geddes]

Tai Otoshi?

 

[killakoy]

Yep, tai otoshi.

It's common to be sore, especially in the first few weeks. However, this injury may not of happened if you had time to learn proper falling.

Remember, always keep your head tucked when you're falling - chin on your chest. I've seen too many concussions that way where people fall backwards and bounce the back of their head off the mat.

 

[Forgottoduck]

I'm afraid the fourth throw I learned wasn't the kouchi gari. Let me try and explain it again

After grabbing his right wrist with my left hand and using my right hand to grab him behind his left shoulder, I use some footwork to wind up in front of him with my back facing him. I then place my right foot outside of this right foot, almost behind it. I then proceed to throw him in the direction that we're both facing. He sort of trips over my foot. It's awkward to describe because it felt really weird doing it. If that sounds familiar, let me know what you think it is. If not, no worries.

Also, after waking up today, I noticed I had some whiplash from one of the throws where I wasn't quite ready for it and my head snapped back. Is this common, and should I be worried? It's nothing major and I'm quite used to soreness from training, but hearing from a judoka would ease my mind a bit.

Harai Goshi? Google Image Result for http://judoinfo.com/haraigos.gif

Actually sounds more like Tai Otoshi.

 

[supersuk]

Getting whiplash will happen to beginners because you havent mastered your breakfalls yet. After you become more experienced, it'll rarely happen (sometimes you get caught off guard).


Honestly, thats alot to learn for your first class.

 

[shouldercharge]

i'm probably going to get flamed for this and i guess i'm lucky that i train under such a good coach buit i honestly think that judo is very under-rated as a grappling art.takedowns and takedown defense of most judoka are obviously miles ahead of most jiujitsu players but also i think judoka ,atleast judoka at a good newaza school also learn superior top control or atleast a top game equal to a bjj player who has trained for the same time,no this doesnt make you well rounded but when matching the two up the judoka is going to get the takedown 9/10 times so aslong as he can avoid the bjj player pullling guard that decent top game is enough. especially in mma when you can ground and pound.

theres no doubt about it bjj is the king of ground fighting and i do cross train in BJJ i just think that judo seems to be very under-rated.

 

[Godhand13]

My instructor wants the class to start sparring in two days

Had the same problem when I tried Judo and the instructor made me spar first night I tried it. My impression was that the instructor was trying to prove to me that he was right when he said that Karate was 'shit' and Judo was the only valid art... be careful, your instructor might be trying the same thing with boxing

... obviously I walked out of the gym the next week

 

[danny_171]

Yeah, the fourth throw was definitely tai otoshi. I want to practice Ippon Seio Nage because that seemed like the most effective/enjoyable one to learn, and I still don't quite understand the footwork or where the leverage is supposed to come from. I always had my feet spread too far apart and didn't use my hips as much as I probably should have.

The only reason I'm not terribly alarmed at the pace of the class and the overall casual feel to it is that the rest of class is made up of noobs like myself. It's $40 for 20 hours of instruction at a university, so it's not some competition-oriented gym with lots of serious judoka. I'd like to practice the basics some more, but I figure it's better to learn the basics even it's a little rough around the edges.

 

[dwright2]

Judo is primarily standing and throwing, so learn to fall correctly, and don't be afraid to fall. BJJ is primarily the opposite - a ground game. However, both arts borrow from each other; judo does have some ground work called ne-waza and it will give you a decent base for bjj should you choose to take it up afterwards. I did judo for awhile and oddly it was my instructor who happens to also be a bjj brown belt who introduced me to the other. When my judo studio lost its lease, I decided to take bjj, which I am a noob to but enjoy thus far.