Takedown in SD situation

[madgrappler]

In my old stomping grounds (i.e. Detroit's Cass Corridor), you get your friends' backs and they get yours. I've personally kicked a dude in the mouth when he was on top of my buddy beating on him. I've seen knives and even guns get pulled on folks. I've been jumped by multiple people before (thank God for my friends), and I've seen guys get the crap stomped out of them when they wound up on the ground against multiple people.

The only sane thing for you to do if you value your life is get new friends and find somewhere else to be. Anything else is a dangerously ignorant comment.

 

[snoop dogg***]

When I see Judo used in MMA, Osoto and Ouchi Gari are the most common throws. Quite a few hip throws, with or without the sweeping leg as well. Jon Jones has a mean sasae, though I doubt he thinks of it that way.

my buddy is a judo player. he was telling me that him and his judo teammates went out to a bar 1 night and this drunk guy was giving him a rough time and started to push him.well the guy was wearing a peacoat and Tsurikomi Goshid the **** out of him. lol

 

[KGB256]

The only sane thing for you to do if you value your life is get new friends and find somewhere else to be. Anything else is a dangerously ignorant comment.

In a city like Detroit, getting into those kinds of problems doesn't take much. Sometimes in a city like that, trouble finds you. In contrast, where was it you did all of this "street fighting"?

And with all due respect, I'll stick with my own judgment as to where I should go and who my friends should be. I'm not the one on here telling people that going to the ground is a good idea because "usually" nobody jumps in to help their friend during a fight.

Suffice it to say I consider your judgment suspect, at best.

 

[madgrappler]

In a city like Detroit, getting into those kinds of problems doesn't take much. Sometimes in a city like that, trouble finds you. In contrast, where was it you did all of this "street fighting"?

And with all due respect, I'll stick with my own judgment as to where I should go and who my friends should be. I'm not the one on here telling people that going to the ground is a good idea because "usually" nobody jumps in to help their friend during a fight.

Suffice it to say I consider your judgment suspect, at best.

If you are facing life threatening danger every day, move. This is exactly why detroit is turning into a ghost city, because most people are sane. Its not my judgement that's suspect.

There are two self-defense scenarios.

1. Some guy is being a douche and forces you to fight - compensating for his tiny penis, who knows. In this case use your self defense techniques.

2. Some guy wants you dead and you fear for your life, or a group might attack you, or a group of your friends wants to fight another group. These are not scenarios you should allow yourself to be in. Leave the conflict area if you can. Run, call the police, move to another city. If you have no choice and can not flea, fight to save your life, even at the cost of someone elses. Punch the throat, kick the groin, fish hook, eye gouge, throw dirt in faces. If comes down to me or you, its you. As soon as you can, run. Learn from the mistakes that put you in that situation and avoid it in the future.

Senario 1 is by far the most common, or at least it should be. If where you live puts you in constant danger of number 2, move.

If you are a douche and like scenario two, self-defense is of no use to you. You will probably die or at the least suffer serious injury if you persist. Good luck to you.

 

[QingTian]

Far more judo matches are won by tani otoshi than all other techniques combined. Why do you think that is?

For high level judo matches, the most common scoring technique is seoinage in Japan and uchimata outside of Japan. Tani otoshi might not even be in the top ten. Sorry, the statistics used to be at judoinfo.com but the site got bought and plastered with spam.

The reason tani otoshi might seem common is that it is easy to just drag down an untrained person. And, the motor development requirements is much lower than other techniques. So beginners abuse the throw. It is not as common at higher levels. But that still requires contact and a grip.

For the other stuff, I don't disagree. The OP was asking about just grappling though. I'm saying to just use whatever you are best at + striking defense.

 

[madgrappler]

For high level judo matches, the most common scoring technique is seoinage in Japan and uchimata outside of Japan. Tani otoshi might not even be in the top ten. Sorry, the statistics used to be at judoinfo.com but the site got bought and plastered with spam.

I admit I haven't seen compiled statistics. But even recently watching international judo competition more than half of ippons came from tani otoshi. A quick google of some common throws in combinations like "champion wins with (throw)" give more results with tani otoshi. But I'll concede that I can't prove that particular point to be true.

The reason tani otoshi might seem common is that it is easy to just drag down an untrained person. And, the motor development requirements is much lower than other techniques. So beginners abuse the throw. It is not as common at higher levels. But that still requires contact and a grip.

I will also admit that as a beginner I used the throw heavily because I could beat far more skilled opponents with it. All I had to do was wait for them to try a throw, catch them in the middle, and cut them down with tani otoshi (or a variation - one of the wraps or trips). My instructor was frustrated about it because I wasn't working as hard on the other techniques including the completely useless ones that you'll never see used in randori even in the gym - but I just wasn't as motivated to work on techniques hat were completely impractical. What I was doing obviously worked and that was what I cared most about - but judo has evolved for sport and it certainly isn't as pretty to watch a rear trip as watching feet fly in the air. Combine that with the near total lack of newaza and I wasn't totally happy with judo. That's about when UFC1 happened and I gave up judo by itself for good. It was impossible to find qualified jj instruction but I found some guys to roll with and some bootleg vhs instructional tapes and off I went.

For the other stuff, I don't disagree. The OP was asking about just grappling though. I'm saying to just use whatever you are best at + striking defense.

And my attitude is still as it has always been, figure out what works most efficiently and learn to use that.

edit - I really like seonage and uchimata too though, those are not quite as easy but very high percentage, especially with more practice. uchimata has a bit too high chance of winding up on bottom so I don't usually recommend it as first option.

 

[sb413197]

use teh dedlies kung fu flying squirrel takedown, too secret for the mmas

Don't knock the flying squirrel bro



Serious answer - clinch based takedowns all the way.

 

[KGB256]

If you are facing life threatening danger every day, move. This is exactly why detroit is turning into a ghost city, because most people are sane. Its not my judgement that's suspect.

There are two self-defense scenarios.

1. Some guy is being a douche and forces you to fight - compensating for his tiny penis, who knows. In this case use your self defense techniques.

2. Some guy wants you dead and you fear for your life, or a group might attack you, or a group of your friends wants to fight another group. These are not scenarios you should allow yourself to be in. Leave the conflict area if you can. Run, call the police, move to another city. If you have no choice and can not flea, fight to save your life, even at the cost of someone elses. Punch the throat, kick the groin, fish hook, eye gouge, throw dirt in faces. If comes down to me or you, its you. As soon as you can, run. Learn from the mistakes that put you in that situation and avoid it in the future.

Senario 1 is by far the most common, or at least it should be. If where you live puts you in constant danger of number 2, move.

If you are a douche and like scenario two, self-defense is of no use to you. You will probably die or at the least suffer serious injury if you persist. Good luck to you.

1) Never said I was in life threatening danger every day. I simply described realities of scenario #1 that I experienced when I lived in Detroit. In fact, even in a relatively small city like Huntsville, it's not exactly weird for the douchebag in question to have a buddy that doesn't appreciate you trying to play UFC on his friend's face.

2) The stereotype that Detroit is shrinking due to crime is over 40 years old, stemming from riots in 1960s that led to one of the most pronounced cases of white flight in the history of this country.

The city's more recent decline is due to economic conditions. Specifically the local economy, job market, and the mortgage crisis which has the city littered with abandoned homes. Additionally, the city has had serious issues with corruption in the city government, which is now virtually bankrupt. This gives the city a combination of high taxes and greatly reduced public services.

But don't let not knowing what you're talking about get in the way of making a comment.

3) Where did you do all of your "street fighting" again? That's a serious question.

4) Your two categories of self-defense scenrio are pretty hilarious. So either (a) one guy wants to fight you for no reason, in which case you need to stand your ground and showcase your sweet UFC skillz in the streetz or (b) murderous gangs are after you on a daily basis, in which case you should bite, claw, and scratch until you can run away and then move and get new friends.

The best way for me to discredit you is simply to let you keep talking.

 

[madgrappler]

1) Never said I was in life threatening danger every day. I simply described realities of scenario #1 that I experienced when I lived in Detroit. In fact, even in a relatively small city like Huntsville, it's not exactly weird for the douchebag in question to have a buddy that doesn't appreciate you trying to play UFC on his friend's face.

2) The stereotype that Detroit is shrinking due to crime is over 40 years old, stemming from riots in 1960s that led to one of the most pronounced cases of white flight in the history of this country.

The city's more recent decline is due to economic conditions. Specifically the local economy, job market, and the mortgage crisis which has the city littered with abandoned homes. Additionally, the city has had serious issues with corruption in the city government, which is now virtually bankrupt. This gives the city a combination of high taxes and greatly reduced public services.

But don't let not knowing what you're talking about get in the way of making a comment.

3) Where did you do all of your "street fighting" again? That's a serious question.

4) Your two categories of self-defense scenrio are pretty hilarious. So either (a) one guy wants to fight you for no reason, in which case you need to stand your ground and showcase your sweet UFC skillz in the streetz or (b) murderous gangs are after you on a daily basis, in which case you should bite, claw, and scratch until you can run away and then move and get new friends.

The best way for me to discredit you is simply to let you keep talking.

I will hereafter ignore you. My arguments stand on their own and I don't feel the need to give any personal information to potential stalkers whose low self esteem makes them take anonymous internet conversations too seriously and have already admitted a violent streak like kicking someone on the ground in the face.

Do whatever you like, think whatever you like, say whatever you like. Perhaps one day you'll do or say something to earn my respect enough to respond to you, but so far that certainly hasn't occured. To sum up: you've said nothing of value or worthy of respect, and I don't care what you think. Have fun with your life, and I will too.

 

[Wild Mushroom]

Like already said, use the royce gracie method. Throw a kick as a feint, and clinch up. From clinch its pretty easy to take untrained person down unless he is alot bigger than you.

 

[madgrappler]

Like already said, use the royce gracie method. Throw a kick as a feint, and clinch up. From clinch its pretty easy to take untrained person down unless he is alot bigger than you.

Works to this day. Lots of variations off this basic strategy depending on your particular leg/arm length, aggressiveness of the attacker, etc...

 

[jclaudevandamme]

Like already said, use the royce gracie method. Throw a kick as a feint, and clinch up. From clinch its pretty easy to take untrained person down unless he is alot bigger than you.

If you use the logic that this move was developed to close up against guys trying to punch you and that it was used for a long long time and proven itself over and over again... yeah, it is a good choice.

 

[seatea]

Far more judo matches are won by tani otoshi than all other techniques combined.

You're just making this shit up.

 

[madgrappler]

You're just making this shit up.

I might be wrong, but I'm not making it up. Source is subjective experience watching/participating in judo and things I've heard said by sources I considered reliable. Could certainly be wrong. Sources cited to the contrary already, that I admit I can't reliably dispute. THe basic point still applies.

 

[KGB256]

I will hereafter ignore you. My arguments stand on their own and I don't feel the need to give any personal information to potential stalkers whose low self esteem makes them take anonymous internet conversations too seriously and have already admitted a violent streak like kicking someone on the ground in the face.

Do whatever you like, think whatever you like, say whatever you like. Perhaps one day you'll do or say something to earn my respect enough to respond to you, but so far that certainly hasn't occured. To sum up: you've said nothing of value or worthy of respect, and I don't care what you think. Have fun with your life, and I will too.

Defending a close friend who was being assaulted now means I have a violent streak? Awesome!

I also enjoy how you come in here and make claims of "street fighting" experience as the basis for assuring people that they face no danger going to the ground in a self-defense situation....and then you give us two self-defense scenarios which are basically Never Back Down and Roadhouse.

 

[seatea]

THe basic point still applies.

What basic point?

 

[madgrappler]

To the TS: Last note on self-defense, and then i think we can close this topic since the thread got out of hand: Obviously the easiest fight to win is the one you avoid. The best takedown is the one you don't have to use because you know you can. Don't let someone draw you into the drama of their life. No reason to risk yourself because You know who you are and what you can do so you don't have anything to prove. Ignore the cocky agitators and walk away. In the scope of life they mean precisely zero.

 

[madgrappler]

What basic point?

That a trip or wrap is a better, safer, higher percentage clinch takedown than a double, single, or even uchimata or other throws.

 

[Commissar]

Without turning this into an "OMG i had more street fightz than u I know more lol" discussion like it has been for the last couple pages, they key point is that, in a self defense situation, you do what you are trained to do.

While I absolutely agree that going to the ground is not an ideal place to take a self defense situation, if you are in situation where disengaging is not a option and you are at greater risk standing and/or clinching, then taking the fight to the ground is your best scenario.

If person A suggests a specific throw is most effective for him, that does not mean it is most effective for you. If I can double leg everyone that I come in contact with with ease, and you've trained one once in class, then a double leg is not your most effective takedown.

Managing self defense situations requires a few things: Training in an appropriate, relevant way to deal with self defense, and training in appropriate techniques for self defense. Following this, being able to gauge various levels of risk depending on the circumstances of the situation x the techniques that you train and use on a regular basis results in a positive conclusion for you.

I've been in a lot of self defense situations due to work, and just because I train BJJ, does not mean I automatically resort to the ground to defend myself. One benefit of arts like BJJ and judo is that it increases your knowledge and effectiveness at position - being able to control the situation, by position, to create the safest circumstances for you.

 

[seatea]

That a trip or wrap is a better, safer, higher percentage clinch takedown than a double, single, or even uchimata or other throws.

Then your basic point does not apply as your 'evidence' was that tani-otoshi scored more than all other throws combined in judo competition, which just isn't even remotely true.