Takedown in SD situation

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by georgwilhelm**, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. georgwilhelm**

    georgwilhelm** Banned Banned

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    Which one would you choose?

    The double leg is often considered the easiest and fastest. But first, I would really have a problem dropping my forward knee on conrete in a fast movement. And second, if it fails you are f'ed, because you opponent is standing and you might be eating knees or a head kick.

    Judo throws which are executed in a more upright position might have the problem of getting close enough w/o eating too many punches. Or even a knee to the groin. But what do you do against a bigger, stronger opponent whom you might not throw so easily and who is trying to hit you anyway? Is there a double leg without the knee drop?
     
  2. Jonas g33k

    Jonas g33k Blue Belt

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    Common sense would be to avoid going on the ground in a self defense situation. But if you are close from your opponent, judo throw could be usefull. If you are too far, then just run.
     
  3. davidecibel

    davidecibel White Belt

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    Yeah there is double leg and even single leg without the knee drop (and you are right, doing it on concrete is not a great idea), I used to do sanda (which is basically kickboxing with takedowns), and the rules state that if you touch the ground with anything but your feet, the opponent would get the points for the takedown, so if you wanted to take your opponent down you had to do it without dropping the knee.

    Actually, when I switched to grappling, it was really hard for me to re-learn how to shoot because I was so used to NOT touch the ground with my knee.

    Here's a video of a russian guy kicking the shit out of my mate at the sanda world championship :D there are several examples of SL and DL without knee drop and in a context where punches and kicks are allowed (not knees though). Not exactly a street fight, but still it answers your question.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz3wlJcZUok

    EDIT: if you don't wanna watch the whole video, check 0:46, 3:47 and 4:57
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  4. JMG1134

    JMG1134 Orange Belt

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    Close the distance and clinch the guy. Then use any number of takedowns from there...
     
  5. georgwilhelm**

    georgwilhelm** Banned Banned

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    The clinching is actually the difficult part, when they are trying to hit you (as anybody w/o martial arts training would) and you don't have any boxing experience.
     
  6. madgrappler

    madgrappler Green Belt

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    Wow. You need to retrain your common sense. Watch some gracie challenge matches, like the one on the beach, and rethink this.
     
  7. madgrappler

    madgrappler Green Belt

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    There you go. "Distance management."

    Basic Gracie combatives... one you get in close, you can do rear trip, body fall, etc etc etc
     
  8. JMG1134

    JMG1134 Orange Belt

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    Cover your head as you move in? No one is saying you won't get hit. It's a fight. Chances are, you are going to get hit. Even when you do get the clinch, you still may get hit some. The idea is to reduce the effectiveness of those punches by a) guarding yourself, and b) managing the distance so they no longer have the range to land an effective strike.
     
  9. jclaudevandamme

    jclaudevandamme Blue Belt

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    Fake leg kick to double leg. Never watched Royce, did you?
     
  10. QTdd**

    QTdd** Green Belt

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    You don't need to drop your knee to the ground when shooting in a self defense situation, because you're not in a wrestling stance and his hips aren't protected well.

    You can clinch up fairly easily and take an untrained guy down.
     
  11. madgrappler

    madgrappler Green Belt

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    Also you can perform a double without scraping your knee and foot - but you have to time the guy coming in. Its not a traditional wrestling double but works when a guy is coming hard intent on punching you. You need to practice the timing though - you work that scenario over and over and test on it to get a blue belt from a CTC.
     
  12. pesadissimo

    pesadissimo Blue Belt

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    Blast double.
     
  13. Shizzx

    Shizzx Blue Belt

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    ok maybe im the only person that noticed that this SD situation turned into an attack situation???

    if your in a SD situation , then i would be figuring you to counter more than trying to take him down. but anyway... Yes you can take a double leg or a single leg without touching the ground.. if you know how to do it properly. legg trips and legg sweeps are the easiest thing to get when in a SF or SD situation. people never really pay attention to their posture and how they stand so kicking thier feet from under them is always an option. I use it on people randomly when i want to see how they fall ( Dont judge me ) lol
     
  14. JMG1134

    JMG1134 Orange Belt

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    Isn't a SD situation by definition an attack situation? You're defending yourself from an attack. If someone squares off to me and I'm sure he's going to swing, I'm going for the clinch. If that, by your definition, makes me an attacker, that's fine.
     
  15. throwchoketap

    throwchoketap White Belt

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    I would work anything from an underhook like a knee pick or high crotch. If he is wearing a jacket I might use it like a gi to throw or trip him. If you train enough it will become second nature and you will use whatever you can and get the job done.
     
  16. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    It's actually not that hard. Plus, the average guy on the street is as likely to fall over themselves if they connect with a punch as they are to hurt you. It's not like they're going to be throwing straight, hard technical jabs. If a guy with no training is going to punch you, you'll probably know for a full second at least that he's swinging.

    Once you're in the clinch, even if he's a little bigger if you have a little Judo you can probably get the throw pretty easy. Especially if he's drunk.

    If you doubt me, YouTube 'Judo parking lot tranny'. It's not sexual in any way (though it's a little odd, believe me), but it is a (seriously) great demonstration of how well Judo works in a real fight.
     
  17. theMarshal

    theMarshal Yellow Belt

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    1. safety lead with jab(or counter-cross if he is attacking; i did 4 years karate and 2 years muay thai)
    2. clinch.
    3. hip throw. no knee scraped, and painful for the other guy on concrete. i doubt most street brawlers could then survive getting taken down, esp in a street situation.
     
  18. madgrappler

    madgrappler Green Belt

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    I would *not* recommend a judo throw of any kind unless you know you are very proficient with it. IE, have trained it until it is instinctive. The odds of missing and winding up on bottom are too high. If you get the guy up in the air and he isn't going over or grabs your clothes and stops you in the middle this could be bad for you. I recommend something safer and high percentage. Here's one variation on a safe, high percentage clinch and takedown strategy that has been proven over and over in actual self defense/stree fighting situations - one of many you learn in gracie combatives.

    [YT]bCYEWY2altE[/YT]

    Truly, gracie combatives are *the best* way to quickly learn street applicable, strike aware jui jitsu. IMHO of course.

    edit - I should note that wraps, trips, a foot sweeps are all included in "judo throws" but I'm saying its a good idea to limit yourself to the ones that are easiest and highest percentage to execute without years of training and from a position where you are protected from strikes....
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  19. MindRipper

    MindRipper Yellow Belt

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    One of my favorite TD in MMA is the run through. Start with a hard jab to the middle of the check and blast the cross / chop on the other side. I've knock more dude on their ass with that.

    Check the takedown thread! Also this double leg this one is pretty cool.

     
  20. triangle killer

    triangle killer Purple Belt

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