Economy Taiwan's Importance Can't Be Overstated - Or Can It? (+ TSMC US Mega-Site)

i don't think the world can afford China losing a war. So in all likely hood, taiwan will be eventually given to the chinese. my estimate is before 2049. actually i have two estimates - before 2049, china controls taiwan and lands a man on Mars.
 
Rob Battisti said:
It can’t be overstated. It’s just about the only country in the world I would support the US getting involved in protecting militarily.
Click to expand...
Same. I am by no means an "interventionist", but there are certain countries that you must aid when push comes to shove. Taiwan is the closest to one of those countries. Not only because they produce the vast majority of hightech chips that the world relies on, but because they are of geostrategic importance.

Taiwan helps contain China's reach via the first island chain.
 
Deorum said:
There's a massive undertaking underway to shift more production (back) into the United States including from Samsung and TSMC. Intel already has the majority its fabs located stateside (see below) but they are in-house manufacturing plants for its own chip designs. It is attempting to expand into TSMC's principle business of foundry services to manufacture the chips of other companies as well.



fab.jpg


There was serious capital thrown down last Summer.

fab2.jpg




Big Dick Style.

Click to expand...

Twain due to the USA re shoring semis is less important but still vital in many ways. Think just R&D that will be lost if china takes them out will be a lose. Not too mention the actual plants
 
Taiwan isnt a US concern it isnt the US issue or to defend and it factually as I recall belongs to China and half the population wants to be Chinese citizens.


Is it worth WW3? It isnt and the US will lose a conflict with China
 
China isn’t going to do anything about Taiwan for a while.
 
Fake Doctor said:
How big an investment would be required for other nations to create the production facilities and equipment that Taiwan has, and what kind of time lag would we be looking at? I know Intel is investing in getting this stuff stateside and that's billions upon billions. It seems quite plausible that you're right, that the intellectual properties are the lynchpin of this whole thing, but the actual manufacturing side seems like something to rival a comprehensive space program for amount of investment required.
Click to expand...

tl;dr - intel's outsourcing to tsmc.
 
Staph infection said:
Seems business based to me. Do it cheaper overseas to increase profits. We let everything leave our country in the name of profit.
Click to expand...

lolz.

it's not cheaper. tsmc is the best fab, by far. it's not about cost, they're the only fab that can even make most of the leading edge 'chips.' and they're not cheap - there's glofo (and probably intel) for that.

and their importance goes far beyond economic. nearly every modern/top supercomputer is essentially powered by 'chips' that were fabbed from tsm. medical, scientific, etc and etc.

if it was about spamming cheap goods and profit... well, the usa would be cranking out fucktons and this thread wouldn't be needed. ...or samsung would be what we're talking about.


Rob Battisti said:
Greed got us into this pickle though, no doubt.
Click to expand...


on that subject, intel paid themselves off with $200B of stock buybacks (and therefore, bonuses based on share price incentives) instead of investing in buying euv. now that same company is begging for taxpayer money in some plea for whatever bullshit.

and after all the crap about ifs/idm 2.0, they're reportedly purchasing more wafers from tsmc because intel 4 isn't great... mere weeks after showing off intel 4 and bragging about how amazing intel's doing (5 nodes in 4 years... i guess it's easy when you rename one and then outsource the second)

that said, this is just an intel problem.

micron, texas instruments, etc and etc are doing their thing.
 
Last edited:
Another excellent thread, very informative. It's good to see that we are working on being less vulnerable in the face of the CCPs aggression. Hopefully we will do more. The CCP is a threat to the world and if they take over Taiwan and the critical equipment mentioned is intact that gives them too much leverage over everyone else for years to come.
 
first the cypto bitches fucked us out of being able to get ahold of viddya game graphics cards (fuck you anybody involved in cryto)

now potentially china's war machine is gonna fuck us out of that next.. just when PC parts are beginning to become available (for now, hopefully crypto dies forever)
 
rob mafia said:
tl;dr - intel's outsourcing to tsmc.
Click to expand...

Intel doesn't really have a choice, they've got neither the capital equipment nor wafer capacity to manufacture the sort of chips they want to produce to remain competitive on performance. They could've procured those necessities but decided to fuck around instead and now any hopes of catching up hinge on actually getting first dibs of ASML's High NA tech in 2024 as they've been claiming they do. I haven't seen it confirmed or denied by ASML itself but they essentially get to pick who takes the lead of next gen process technology, as its advancement is dependent on their innovation.

Samsung is a clear #2, but they make far less public pronouncements and actually take action. Its share of the global foundry market has gone from 6% to nearly 20% in the last five years. They are serious, and definitely no longer 'just' a DRAM chip manufacturer. They actually have more total wafer capacity than TSMC (albeit in large part because of their enormous DRAM operations). The proof of how serious they are is in the pudding, or in this case the purchases: It bought 15 EUV machines in 2021 and ASML expects to deliver another 18 to Samsung this year, nearly equal to TSMC's expected 22 units.
 
ElKarlo said:
Twain due to the USA re shoring semis is less important but still vital in many ways. Think just R&D that will be lost if china takes them out will be a lose. Not too mention the actual plants
Click to expand...

TSMC's founder doesn't like the investment in US fabs, is always talking about how reshoring is an "exercise in futility" and he needs to shut his hole, lol. The guy is 90 and no longer chairman nor chief executive to shape any direction of the company but it's humorous. He runs his mouth as if his higher education wasn't put on in America at MIT and Stanford, or like he wasn't given his shot from Texas Instruments. America gave you your fooking life, homeboy. America invented the transistor and brought integrated circuits into this world. America is entitled to do whatever the fuck it pleases in this domain, fakkit. Okay?

{<jordan}
 
Deorum said:
Intel doesn't really have a choice, they've got neither the capital equipment nor wafer capacity to manufacture the sort of chips they want to produce to remain competitive on performance. They could've procured those necessities but decided to fuck around instead and now any hopes of catching up hinge on actually getting first dibs of ASML's High NA tech in 2024 as they've been claiming they do. I haven't seen it confirmed or denied by ASML itself but they essentially get to pick who takes the lead of next gen process technology, as its advancement is dependent on their innovation.

Samsung is a clear #2, but they make far less public pronouncements and actually take action. Its share of the global foundry market has gone from 6% to nearly 20% in the last five years. They are serious, and definitely no longer 'just' a DRAM chip manufacturer. They actually have more total wafer capacity than TSMC (albeit in large part because of their enormous DRAM operations). The proof of how serious they are is in the pudding, or in this case the purchases: It bought 15 EUV machines in 2021 and ASML expects to deliver another 18 to Samsung this year, nearly equal to TSMC's expected 22 units.
Click to expand...

<seedat>

and yeah, i'm aware of samsung. they seem to be having problems with with their most advanced nodes, though. nvidia wasn't exactly thrilled with them (although, iirc, they're keeping samsung around to make the current stuff) and went 'back' to tsmc. so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for intel to go from their own yield/etc problems to a different fab that seems to have similar problems.

more telling might be their problems with exynos, but that's kind of another topic.

but yeah, samsung is clearly the 2nd.
 
Deorum said:
TSMC's founder doesn't like the investment in US fabs, is always talking about how reshoring is an "exercise in futility" and he needs to shut his hole, lol. The guy is 90 and no longer chairman nor chief executive to shape any direction of the company but it's humorous. He runs his mouth as if his higher education wasn't put on in America at MIT and Stanford, or like he wasn't given his shot from Texas Instruments. America gave you your fooking life, homeboy. America invented the transistor and brought integrated circuits into this world. America is entitled to do whatever the fuck it pleases in this domain, fakkit. Okay?

{<jordan}
Click to expand...
Yeah, listened to to his story recently. TI gave him a whole bunch. Taiwan was full of cheap labor then, I went and saw a tunnel carved into a mountain that was done by hand in the 1960s. Dude still thinks the situation is the same. Taiwan is cheap, but they have few kids and China is breathing down their necks there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Orgasmo
International China May Have Broken Through The 5nm Chip Barrier
2 3
Replies
56
Views
3K
Wadtucket
Wadtucket

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,982
Messages
55,459,293
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top