tabata sprints

[Brad Morris]

Cockysprinter,

I think you are focusing on the running side of things too much and with your track background I can understand why. I highly doubt a track coach would like to see his students performing an interval drill that by the last few cycles had them running with poor form (form always suffers under fatigue) and running slowly. I fully appreciate the work to rest ratios of tempo and the high level of repeated performance that they allow. But I think you are not looking at Tabata intervals in the right light.

In a fight some of the most crucial times are when you are under stress and fatiguing, training under that type of stress is important, both physically and mentally. Knowing how your body responds to that type of situation and working through it is vital information for a fighter.

Anecdotal evidence has convinced me that Tabata's are a great training protocol, and on top of that there is the scientific data presented by Dr I. Tabata and his team regarding the benefits of Tabata Intervals.

I am with XTrainer we will have to agree to disagree with you, I really like Tabata Intervals and they will continue to be part of my training. But I am always open to new concepts and having my ideas and training principles challenged. But thankyou Cockysprinter for an interesting conversation and best of luck with your training.

 

[hagler7]

i do a session of 10 x 10 sec all out explosive running and 10 sec walking, it might not seem a lot but trust me on that score

 

[XTrainer]

Cockysprinter,

I think you are focusing on the running side of things too much and with your track background I can understand why. I highly doubt a track coach would like to see his students performing an interval drill that by the last few cycles had them running with poor form (form always suffers under fatigue) and running slowly. I fully appreciate the work to rest ratios of tempo and the high level of repeated performance that they allow. But I think you are not looking at Tabata intervals in the right light.

In a fight some of the most crucial times are when you are under stress and fatiguing, training under that type of stress is important, both physically and mentally. Knowing how your body responds to that type of situation and working through it is vital information for a fighter.

Anecdotal evidence has convinced me that Tabata's are a great training protocol, and on top of that there is the scientific data presented by Dr I. Tabata and his team regarding the benefits of Tabata Intervals.

I am with XTrainer we will have to agree to disagree with you, I really like Tabata Intervals and they will continue to be part of my training. But I am always open to new concepts and having my ideas and training principles challenged. But thankyou Cockysprinter for an interesting conversation and best of luck with your training.

This is what was trying to say. Brad put it more eloquently than I could . Bolded paragraph for emphasis. Basically, my feeling on this is that if you're not training to the point where form or speed breakdown begins to occur, you're not training anywhere near as hard as you need to be.

EDIT: Forgot the not. That would have been confusing

 

[cockysprinter]

I think you are focusing on the running side of things too much and with your track background I can understand why.

no i think im mostly being misunderstood in this thread. i think were more on the same page than people think. for example you said this:

In a fight some of the most crucial times are when you are under stress and fatiguing, training under that type of stress is important, both physically and mentally. Knowing how your body responds to that type of situation and working through it is vital information for a fighter.

and earlier i said this:

as for a balls to the wall tabata, i would use that more to promote mental toughness than overall conditioning.

you also said this:

As I said before I use them as part of an overall conditioning program they are not the focus of my conditioning.

and i said this:

i would rarely use tabatas as a primary protocol (for any athlete), though i would use similar ones to build the same qualities.

i also feel some things have been misinterpreted. you also said this:

In the original study olympic level athletes did the intervals on a stationary bike, for 6 to 8 cycles of 20 secs work 10 secs rest. Why only 6 cycles sometimes instead of 8? Because there were times when they could not perform all 8 due to fatigue, and remember that these were top level athletes who knew what hard training was about.

the link to the article i posted said this:

The first session (I1) comprised bouts of 20 seconds with 10 seconds rest at an intensity equivalent to 170% of their VO2max. The subjects performed six or seven bouts each until reaching exhaustion, ie, they could no longer continue at the prescribed intensity.

that seems to agree with my statements that training stops when quality drops. a comparable example might be tabatas using pushups. the athlete would do as many sets as he could he no longer could do 20 reps in 20 seconds. if i can do 8 sets without dropping below 20, im in much better shape than if i was at 4. i dont know about you, but i can only perform pushups so fast. when doing pushups, i am very hard pressed to do more than 1 a second, because completing a rep has more or less the same requisite in power output, speed, mental focus, etc. basically, all pushups are more or less equal. not so with sprinting. if i sprint, the first interval will be between 160 and 200m. the next will be much less because thats the nature of sprinting. thats the fundamental basis for both tempo and my general stance on tabatas. me avoiding a sprint/tabata combination has to do with dropping quality and ability to quantify the training. thats not to say i wouldnt do tabatas to total fatigue (and if that is your focus than you might use running), but usually when planning training i wont unless i was trying to build mental toughness qualities.

 

[Meatsack]

Having just read this whole thread, I appreciate this great conversation. Cockysprinter, what methods ARE you using to increase your VO2Max?

 

[cockysprinter]

i do some longer runs, some tempo, some tabata stuff with bodyweight exercises as mentioned in my last post. for the most part though i just a do a lot of sparring on my sparring days. i mostly run because i still enjoy running, not because i think its the best option for training. as said before i do jiujitsu and strength is a huge factor (even though no one wants to admit it), and matches are short. there arent rounds and you can get a lot of rest between matches (not to mention rest while youre in a dominant position), so i focus mostly on strength and sparring. obviously if i fight mma it will be a different story and there will be a lot less emphasis on strength and a lot more on conditioning. it should be noted that aerobic conditioning isnt the limiting factor in most athletes. while you may get some energy for your aerobic system after working for a minute or two, it doesnt become a primary energy system for much much longer.

 

[Meatsack]

I intersperse long runs (for endurance) with some plyometrics as well as bodyweight squats and good mornings, as I need the endurance and power for mountain bike racing. You make a good point about aerobic conditioning; I don't seem to "gas", per se, but I need the power in my legs on-demand.

 

[wOg]

Very interesting, high quality discussion. Thanks.

Personally, I like Tabatas for bodyweight stuff (jiu jitsu/wrestling solo drills for, example) where I feel like I'm constantly scrambling from position to position.

I found this thread looking for a good sprint workout (I can't do my bodyweight jiu jitsu Tabatas because of a shoulder injury last Friday on the mat). From what I've read here, I think I'm persuaded that sets of 100 meter sprints might do a better job of getting me where I want to be compared to "tabata sprints".

I'll also agree with cockysprinter's point about strength in jiu jitsu--even if it is just to help ward off injury. If you're a smaller grappler or a competitor, then I think you've got to do some resistance work for yourself.

Thanks again for a fascinating discussion/debate.

 

[JinKazama]

zigga that sounds dangerous

but i dont think the tabata sprints are as good as burpees, mostly because of the timing, its hard to adjust the speed ona treadmill to fit the intervals

however if your running outside on a track shouldnt be a problem

 

[cockysprinter]

I'll also agree with cockysprinter's point about strength in jiu jitsu--even if it is just to help ward off injury.

thats a good point as well. strength is always important from a prehabilitaion standpoint, but its especially important in a sport that sees you getting slammed and having your limbs torqued in the wrong directions.

 

[Nate Brow]

great thread, i have nothing to contribute but a thank you.