SUMO - 2021 Nagoya Basho (July 4th - July 18th)

[BoxingMMA]

It's totally fine to disagree. I just don't think you are making an attempt to understand the argument. The standards are different by sport and even further differentiated by rank. The Jones comparison is to give you relative context.

I agree, Hakuho is doing amazing things for sumo outside of competition. I was talking more so the celebrations and whatnot.

There have absolutely been talks of Takakeisho not having "ozeki" sumo because of his reliance on tsuppari attacks and blasting tachiais. It goes beyond Hakuho, Hakuho is just held to a higher standard that goes beyond his ethnicity, which does play at least a small factor.

yeah the whole thing with the pusher thrusters is another whole can of worms, and I get it. It makes sense, I love keisho but you expect an ozeki to actually know how to grapple a little bit. Even then one can’t help but love how much fun it is to watch him compete. I was really bummed to see him go out in July.

not sure he would have made much of a difference but it would have been nice. At the very least shodai would have probably not made KK. Or who knows, you never know with shodai, dude sucked but was very close to beating teru.

 

[Stormtrooper85]

I find it interesting that someone would criticize Hakuho for the Shodai match but not criticize shodai for how awful and terrified he looked, he was even worse than tobizaru, at least tobi trolled around a little bit but shodai is an ozeki, yet they just focus on Hakuho. He even allowed shodai to try something.

Shodai has all around been dreadful as an Ozeki.
Always barely getting his kk. The last 3 Basho he has failed to get a double digit score. If Takakeisho isn't back in September, he'll be the only Ozeki and man that's rough.

 

[BoxingMMA]

Shodai has all around been dreadful as an Ozeki.
Always barely getting his kk. The last 3 Basho he has failed to get a double digit score. If Takakeisho isn't back in September, he'll be the only Ozeki and man that's rough.

absolutely, if Shodai does not get his shit together, takakeisho is still hurt and Hakuho skips the tournament, we are in for a boring ass basho.

good for teru though, almost guaranteed yusho as a yokozuna

 

[Stormtrooper85]

absolutely, if Shodai does not get his shit together, takakeisho is still hurt and Hakuho skips the tournament, we are in for a boring ass basho.

good for teru though, almost guaranteed yusho as a yokozuna

I'll laugh if he goes on a tear in September. That smack from Hakuho caused him to put in some actual effort against Takayasu.

 

[Stormtrooper85]

The 73rd Yokozuna Terunofuji Haruo

 

[Nova44]

So i've read the intro to Sumo thread, though i'm sure i'll forget a lot of the terminology, really informative and easy to digest @Fork , thanks.

Anyway, just started watching Day 1 from the Basho and all i can say is... *clears throat*... this is fucking awesome!

 

[Slick_36]

So i've read the intro to Sumo thread, though i'm sure i'll forget a lot of the terminology, really informative and easy to digest @Fork , thanks.

Anyway, just started watching Day 1 from the Basho and all i can say is... *clears throat*... this is fucking awesome!

Yeah just take your time and focus on one new thing at a time. You'll forget things and they'll come back eventually. The real beauty of sumo is that at the end of the day, it's just two guys in a circle trying to push the other one down, everything else is dressing.

 

[Stormtrooper85]

So i've read the intro to Sumo thread, though i'm sure i'll forget a lot of the terminology, really informative and easy to digest @Fork , thanks.

Anyway, just started watching Day 1 from the Basho and all i can say is... *clears throat*... this is fucking awesome!

Yeah it's incredibly easy to get hooked on and to find your favorite rikishi and watch them perform their brand of Sumo while their opponent is unable to perform their own particular brand of Sumo (You'll get used to this when you start watching interviews, they don't brag, they don't make excuses as they aren't really allowed to)

 

[Nova44]

Yeah it's incredibly easy to get hooked on and to find your favorite rikishi and watch them perform their brand of Sumo while their opponent is unable to perform their own particular brand of Sumo (You'll get used to this when you start watching interviews, they don't brag, they don't make excuses as they aren't really allowed to)

Up to Day 7 currently and Hakuho and Terunofuji are just so damn good. They've had a few close calls, especially Hakuho, but they found a way to win which is obviously why they're the best. Shodai looked good on Day 1 and 2 but then went downhill, quite disappointing.

Liking Ura and Hoshoryu even though they're lower ranked just because they're smaller Rikishi battling these giants. They have to think outside the box to get the win most times which is super impressive to me. Even Ishiura (at the point i'm up to he's now 4-3) is impressing me, just a quick side-step and he goes behind Kaisei to guide him out of the Dohyo.

Loving it.

 

[Fork]

So i've read the intro to Sumo thread, though i'm sure i'll forget a lot of the terminology, really informative and easy to digest @Fork , thanks.

Anyway, just started watching Day 1 from the Basho and all i can say is... *clears throat*... this is fucking awesome!

hahaha great, glad the intro to sumo thread was helpful, i gotta update it sometime.

i think sumo can seem really inaccessible at first, but once you start watching it everything isn't actually too complicated.

and yeah, like @Stormtrooper85 said, once you've got favorite wrestlers you start to root for it becomes easier to pick out strategies and that kind of thing. when i started watching one of my favorite wrestlers was Iwakiyama who was never an amazing or flashy wrestler or anything and i just noticed him at first because he looked like he got hit in the face with a frying pan so he stood out.

 

[Nova44]

hahaha great, glad the intro to sumo thread was helpful, i gotta update it sometime.

i think sumo can seem really inaccessible at first, but once you start watching it everything isn't actually too complicated.

and yeah, like @Stormtrooper85 said, once you've got favorite wrestlers you start to root for it becomes easier to pick out strategies and that kind of thing. when i started watching one of my favorite wrestlers was Iwakiyama who was never an amazing or flashy wrestler or anything and i just noticed him at first because he looked like he got hit in the face with a frying pan so he stood out.

Hahaha thank god i wasn't drinking when i read the frying pan line!

But yeah it seems like Sumo is one of those things that's really easy to get straight into but it also has a huge amount of depth, so you're not overwhelmed but you can dive deeper to learn the intricacies if you so choose.

Obviously i'm new to all this but i really love what i'm seeing from Hoshoryu. Smaller guy but seems so smart and has many strategies to maneuver his opponents the way he wants. Not saying the absolutely huge guys are wrong in any way but some of them are so big that when they press too much with the upper body and their opponent takes one fast step back or to the side they go tumbling. Again, i'm new to this but that's just what i've seen so far.

Just finished Day 10.

 

[Fork]

Hahaha thank god i wasn't drinking when i read the frying pan line!

hahaha

But yeah it seems like Sumo is one of those things that's really easy to get straight into but it also has a huge amount of depth, so you're not overwhelmed but you can dive deeper to learn the intricacies if you so choose.

Obviously i'm new to all this but i really love what i'm seeing from Hoshoryu. Smaller guy but seems so smart and has many strategies to maneuver his opponents the way he wants. Not saying the absolutely huge guys are wrong in any way but some of them are so big that when they press too much with the upper body and their opponent takes one fast step back or to the side they go tumbling. Again, i'm new to this but that's just what i've seen so far.

Just finished Day 10.

yeah, i completely agree about the depth. and the depth isn't just there in terms of gameplans, techniques, and strategies and all that kind of stuff, but there's also tremendous historical depth with amazing figures going back over 100 years. then there's also the depth in the rituals and traditions associated with the sport that make it so unique.

and yeah, the smaller guys are always a blast to watch. it was too bad Enho wasn't able to stick in the top division, but i think Hoshoryu has the edge over him in that he's in more of a middle ground where he's smaller than pretty much all of his opponents but he's very strong and aggressive. i also think he'll be adding quite a bit more weight as he develops. he seems like he's in a really great place now and that he still has a lot of room to improve.

 

[Nova44]

and yeah, the smaller guys are always a blast to watch. it was too bad Enho wasn't able to stick in the top division, but i think Hoshoryu has the edge over him in that he's in more of a middle ground where he's smaller than pretty much all of his opponents but he's very strong and aggressive. i also think he'll be adding quite a bit more weight as he develops. he seems like he's in a really great place now and that he still has a lot of room to improve.

Man Hakuho and Terunofuji make it look so effortless! Still though, just watched Hoshoryu send Shodai into the dirt so he's doing really well, only young too so there's definitely room for growth.

If you're Maegashira rank is there anything to gain after you've secured your 8th win? You might've covered this in the intro thread but i've forgotten.

 

[winterbike]

Man Hakuho and Terunofuji make it look so effortless! Still though, just watched Hoshoryu send Shodai into the dirt so he's doing really well, only young too so there's definitely room for growth.

If you're Maegashira rank is there anything to gain after you've secured your 8th win? You might've covered this in the intro thread but i've forgotten.

If you keep having a winning record, you can get promoted and promoted all the way up to Sekiwake. From there if you want to go up to Ozeki you need roughly 33 wins over 3 tournaments (flexible rules).

 

[Nova44]

If you keep having a winning record, you can get promoted and promoted all the way up to Sekiwake. From there if you want to go up to Ozeki you need roughly 33 wins over 3 tournaments (flexible rules).

What i mean is let's say a Maegashira #6 gets to 8 wins and 4 losses in a Basho, he's gonna get promoted right? So is there any difference between him then going to 8 wins 7 losses as opposed to 11 wins 4 losses?

 

[Fork]

Man Hakuho and Terunofuji make it look so effortless! Still though, just watched Hoshoryu send Shodai into the dirt so he's doing really well, only young too so there's definitely room for growth.

If you're Maegashira rank is there anything to gain after you've secured your 8th win? You might've covered this in the intro thread but i've forgotten.

yeah, basically the more wins you get above 8, the higher you'll be promoted in the next tournament. getting that 8th win is definitely key and some guys may try to avoid picking up injuries and stuff by kind of turning off once they've gotten their 8th win, but there are still promotion opportunities and potentially higher salaries that could come with more wins.

 

[Nova44]

yeah, basically the more wins you get above 8, the higher you'll be promoted in the next tournament. getting that 8th win is definitely key and some guys may try to avoid picking up injuries and stuff by kind of turning off once they've gotten their 8th win, but there are still promotion opportunities and potentially higher salaries that could come with more wins.

Ah i see, got it.

 

[Fork]

What i mean is let's say a Maegashira #6 gets to 8 wins and 4 losses in a Basho, he's gonna get promoted right? So is there any difference between him then going to 8 wins 7 losses as opposed to 11 wins 4 losses?

yeah. with an 8-7 record he'll probably be promoted to Maegashira 7, whereas with an 11-4 record he's looking at something like promotion to Maegashira 1 probably.

and i don't think there's a difference in salary among the Maegashira ranks. i think an M1 wrestler is getting the same salary as M16, but the Komosubi and Sekiwake ranks to get a bit of extra salary, so that promotion is a big one.

 

[Nova44]

yeah. with an 8-7 record he'll probably be promoted to Maegashira 7, whereas with an 11-4 record he's looking at something like promotion to Maegashira 1 probably.

and i don't think there's a difference in salary among the Maegashira ranks. i think an M1 wrestler is getting the same salary as M16, but the Komosubi and Sekiwake ranks to get a bit of extra salary, so that promotion is a big one.

Thanks for clearing it up, i thought there had to be a benefit otherwise most would get to 8 wins and then stop trying so hard to avoid injuries.

 

[Fork]

Thanks for clearing it up, i thought there had to be a benefit otherwise most would get to 8 wins and then stop trying so hard to avoid injuries.

yeah, that's exactly right.

there was also plenty of talk about match-fixing (even prior to the 2011 match-fixing scandal) and about how if an 8-6 wrestler and a 7-7 wrestler met on the final day, the 8-6 guy has much less to gain than the 7-7 guy, so there were suspicions that the 8-6 guy would throw the match for the 7-7 guy either for some kind of payoff or so that in the future if they meet again and the 8-6 guy needs a win, the 7-7 guy would throw the match for him.

i don't think match-fixing is any kind of issue in the sport today, and i think the 2011 scandal cleaned out a lot of that stuff, but i think there's also a big difference in determination to win between an 8-6 guy and a 7-7 guy on the final day.