SUMO - 2021 Nagoya Basho (July 4th - July 18th)

I don't think they even slightly care about opium war or Chinese history. They consider themselves as a western nation while preserving traditional ways including the oldest Royal family in the universe. They don't like to be relevant or associated with china or asia in general.

I say 95% of the japaneae citizens never even use the word opium (ahen) in their life time apart from history class. Most talked drugs are 1) meth and 2)marijuana. Cocaine has never been that popular and ecstacy is on the decline. Japan banned meth (once was over-the-counter drug advertised on daily papers) in 1950s by passing narcotic control act which led the people to get confused about drugs of different levels and categories. I know it's hard to believe but today many japs still don't distinguish meth from harmless herb like marijuana. Their drug literacy is ridiculously poor.

For example, when Paul McCartney got busted after arriving in Tokyo international airport for the possession of rolled pots, Japanese media bashed him like the end of the world circulating the same word that could mean meth.
 
There's an animal in almost all mongolian wrestlers' ringname.

Horse - chiyoshoma, kiribayama
Dragon- mitoryu, hoshoryu, azumaryu
Eagle- tamawashi
Phoenix - hakuho

Terunofuji and ichinojo are the only 2 mongolians with humane identity. And terunofuji will be the first yokozuna of foreign origin who has a regular Japanese rikishi name that Isegahama stable master gave him.
 
I'd love to but i wouldn't even know where to begin. Help me sensei!
Definitely find a source for the highlights and just watch tournaments one day at a time. If you have a wrestler or two who you seem to like, maybe look for the tournaments they did best in and start from there.

Don't get too caught up in all the terminology and rituals, even the names will probably take some time to figure out. It's ok to ignore some of the names because there's a good chance you won't even see them again.

My first tournament I noticed three guys and I paid extra close attention. Ichinojo, Shohozan, and Terunofuji. Ichinojo was a giant nomad debuting with great hype, Shohozan was a small ball of fire blasting with slaps, and Terunofuji was a technical big guy who liked to get double overhooks. Every tournament from then on would offer me different stories from those three guys alone, and I started to pick up the others around them with time.
 
They are just hating. Elbow to the face is wrong but face to face concussions or dropping someone on his head, paralyzing them and taking years before support arrives is “tradition”. Fuck off.

There’s nothing they can do to Hakuho that they haven’t done before. Not like they can erase Yushos, they could try to force retire him but at this point it wouldn’t even matter considering how badass his last match was.
 
I would highly recommend the book Sumo by David Benjamin. It's fun to read and does a good job of cutting through the bullshit. It largely ignores the technical terms while covering all the weird little details and intangibles that make it fun.
 
They are just hating. Elbow to the face is wrong but face to face concussions or dropping someone on his head, paralyzing them and taking years before support arrives is “tradition”. Fuck off.

There’s nothing they can do to Hakuho that they haven’t done before. Not like they can erase Yushos, they could try to force retire him but at this point it wouldn’t even matter considering how badass his last match was.
That's just part of the quirkiness of sumo. It's a sport of many contradictions, defined by it's arbitrary nature. An elbow is just a little too close to a drunken brawl, while that headbutt is a sacrifice that requires bravery. Of course they're both just as violent, as MMA fans we're more than likely to see it the other way around with headbutts being dirty.

I guarantee you that you'll see plenty of comments about that forearm before the JSA said anything about it. Ossunarashi was getting shit for his reckless attack all the time when I started watching. There's no denying it's a damaging move that could change the game if everyone adopted it for regular use.
 
I was so happy at the honor of Yokozuna that I didn't even really consider the impact this will have on the longevity of Terunofuji's career. We might see him for a few more years and maybe even a few more yushos.
 
That's just part of the quirkiness of sumo. It's a sport of many contradictions, defined by it's arbitrary nature. An elbow is just a little too close to a drunken brawl, while that headbutt is a sacrifice that requires bravery. Of course they're both just as violent, as MMA fans we're more than likely to see it the other way around with headbutts being dirty.

I guarantee you that you'll see plenty of comments about that forearm before the JSA said anything about it. Ossunarashi was getting shit for his reckless attack all the time when I started watching. There's no denying it's a damaging move that could change the game if everyone adopted it for regular use.


forearm clashes have been happening in sumo pretty much forever. The problem is when someone finds a way to use it to their advantage everybody else cries foul.

believe me if it was asanoyama getting those multiple yushos utilizing such techniques he would be dabbed the next Japanese sumo genius.

I think they just don’t like Hakuhos showmanship/ethnicity combination.

I get why they don’t like it but it’s not only Hakuho that does quirky shit in there. If a forearm to the face is considered dirty and not brave enough then the same should be said about takakeisho’s tsupari attack, after all there’s no bravery in using ones hands to slap. Be a Japanese macho and use your head! Paralysis be damned!

As you say. Many irregularities and contradictions in sumo. Crazy
 
forearm clashes have been happening in sumo pretty much forever. The problem is when someone finds a way to use it to their advantage everybody else cries foul.

believe me if it was asanoyama getting those multiple yushos utilizing such techniques he would be dabbed the next Japanese sumo genius.

I think they just don’t like Hakuhos showmanship/ethnicity combination.

I get why they don’t like it but it’s not only Hakuho that does quirky shit in there. If a forearm to the face is considered dirty and not brave enough then the same should be said about takakeisho’s tsupari attack, after all there’s no bravery in using ones hands to slap. Be a Japanese macho and use your head! Paralysis be damned!

As you say. Many irregularities and contradictions in sumo. Crazy
He's not just someone though, he's a yokozuna, a dai-yokozuna to be exact. He's supposed to be symbolic of sumo itself, his role isn't to win, it's to represent what sumo is to the world and to his fellow rikishi. Sumo isn't really a sport, it's a tradition, and sometimes it's just going to include stuff like this. His ethnicity may not help, but I think you're weighing it too heavily.
 
He's not just someone though, he's a yokozuna, a dai-yokozuna to be exact. He's supposed to be symbolic of sumo itself, his role isn't to win, it's to represent what sumo is to the world and to his fellow rikishi. Sumo isn't really a sport, it's a tradition, and sometimes it's just going to include stuff like this. His ethnicity may not help, but I think you're weighing it too heavily.

well all you say is obviously correct. The only thing I don’t completely agree with is that the Yokozuna’s role isn’t to win. The Yokozuna is supposed to be many things but on top all he should be more skilled than the average ozeki, which is why the requirement is to win in order to become one.

Hakuho simply seems to have a bigger tool box than the rest and sometimes they seek to dislike those tools but come on… at the end of the day the reason why he wins is because he is better, he is no more a cheater than rikishi who go for the legs at a tachiai…
 
well all you say is obviously correct. The only thing I don’t completely agree with is that the Yokozuna’s role isn’t to win. The Yokozuna is supposed to be many things but on top all he should be more skilled than the average ozeki, which is why the requirement is to win in order to become one.

Hakuho simply seems to have a bigger tool box than the rest and sometimes they seek to dislike those tools but come on… at the end of the day the reason why he wins is because he is better, he is no more a cheater than rikishi who go for the legs at a tachiai…
You can disagree all you want, but you're looking at it like it's boxing or MMA. How you win is just as, if not more important than winning itself. Sumo will always appreciate a Carlos Newton over a Jon Jones, no matter how much more dominant Jones may be.

As for the toolbox, there's nothing super skillful and unique about an elbow to the face. Diving for the leg requires high mobility and puts you in a disadvantageous position of carrying your opponents weight without a hand to fight off their attack. Leading with a strong head charge is a sacrifice to your body and position, overcommitting will leave you concussed or overextended for an easy henka or pulldown.

The elbow is a relatively low risk move with a violent result. Slaps aren't necessarily respected either, ideally they never go beyond "pushing". It's a brawl. Don't get me wrong, the crowd loves it, I love it, but "proper" sumo is a wrestling match on the belt. You'll see something similar in collegiate wrestling with a blurry line between an aggressive push to the head and an outright strike. Rough strikes usually receive them in return, and if there was no pressure to avoid it, the stand up game could evolve in to a very different animal with wrestlers looking to rock opponents and abandoning their wrestling altogether.
 
You can disagree all you want, but you're looking at it like it's boxing or MMA. How you win is just as, if not more important than winning itself. Sumo will always appreciate a Carlos Newton over a Jon Jones, no matter how much more dominant Jones may be.

As for the toolbox, there's nothing super skillful and unique about an elbow to the face. Diving for the leg requires high mobility and puts you in a disadvantageous position of carrying your opponents weight without a hand to fight off their attack. Leading with a strong head charge is a sacrifice to your body and position, overcommitting will leave you concussed or overextended for an easy henka or pulldown.

The elbow is a relatively low risk move with a violent result. Slaps aren't necessarily respected either, ideally they never go beyond "pushing". It's a brawl. Don't get me wrong, the crowd loves it, I love it, but "proper" sumo is a wrestling match on the belt. You'll see something similar in collegiate wrestling with a blurry line between an aggressive push to the head and an outright strike. Rough strikes usually receive them in return, and if there was no pressure to avoid it, the stand up game could evolve in to a very different animal with wrestlers looking to rock opponents and abandoning their wrestling altogether.


The elbow isn’t the skillful part of the move though. It’s how he sometimes sets it up by using his other hand to put his opponents face into the correct position before slamming them with the forearm.

In terus case, hakuhos left hand was used as a feint in order to land the right forearm. It’s beautiful stuff.

anyway, any person with a brain would apréciate newton or even Jake Paul over Jon Jones because Jones is a legitimate cheater, so comparing Jones to Hakuho is bs, Jones would dream to be as good as Hakuho, Jones has lost at least 2 of his 3 close decisions and has been found doping. The ufc keeps doing him favors with gift decisions and passes.

Hak on the other hand has the whole sumo purists against him crossing their fingers hoping he gets demolished and the guy just keeps coming out on top. Sometimes I feel he does these things Intentionally to piss them off.

I see it more like this. Imagine Carl Lewis telling usain bolt his running technique is dirty, wrong, lacking, etc.

you never know, Carl may be right, but at the end of the day when you are the fastest man alive, you sort of make your own rules.

this is how I see Hakuho, the guy is by far the greatest rikishi who ever lived, you need to go centuries back to find legendary rikishi who may compare to him.
I think he has earned the right to be the dai Yokozuna in anyway he sees fit as long as is inside the rules of course.

I feel that “how you win is more important than actually winning” is the kind of thing rikishi like to say but don’t actually live by, you see how hard they try once they are in the ring, sometimes it feels like life or death for them.

but that’s just me, we can agree to disagree no problem, at least we can agree that teru getting Yokozuna is awesome abs maybe a rematch in two months??
 
The elbow isn’t the skillful part of the move though. It’s how he sometimes sets it up by using his other hand to put his opponents face into the correct position before slamming them with the forearm.

In terus case, hakuhos left hand was used as a feint in order to land the right forearm. It’s beautiful stuff.

anyway, any person with a brain would apréciate newton or even Jake Paul over Jon Jones because Jones is a legitimate cheater, so comparing Jones to Hakuho is bs, Jones would dream to be as good as Hakuho, Jones has lost at least 2 of his 3 close decisions and has been found doping. The ufc keeps doing him favors with gift decisions and passes.

Hak on the other hand has the whole sumo purists against him crossing their fingers hoping he gets demolished and the guy just keeps coming out on top. Sometimes I feel he does these things Intentionally to piss them off.

I see it more like this. Imagine Carl Lewis telling usain bolt his running technique is dirty, wrong, lacking, etc.

you never know, Carl may be right, but at the end of the day when you are the fastest man alive, you sort of make your own rules.

this is how I see Hakuho, the guy is by far the greatest rikishi who ever lived, you need to go centuries back to find legendary rikishi who may compare to him.
I think he has earned the right to be the dai Yokozuna in anyway he sees fit as long as is inside the rules of course.

I feel that “how you win is more important than actually winning” is the kind of thing rikishi like to say but don’t actually live by, you see how hard they try once they are in the ring, sometimes it feels like life or death for them.

but that’s just me, we can agree to disagree no problem, at least we can agree that teru getting Yokozuna is awesome abs maybe a rematch in two months??
First off, leading the elbow with a slap is not some big brained move that only a great yokozuna could achieve. It's well executed for sure, but is hardly technical.

You're not fully grasping the analogy. By MMA standards, Jones is unbecoming of a champion, his use of eyepokes and oblique kicks are beneath him and cause many to debate where he really stands when on paper he would appear to be the greatest ever. His behavior outside reflects poorly on the sport. That's the standard in MMA, and sumo has it's own unique standards.

Same thing with your race analogy, the one and only goal of a sprint is to see who reaches the finish line the fastest. It's as simple as it gets. Sumo is on the other end of the spectrum, thanks to it being so tied to religion, philosophy, and culture, it's very complicated and nuanced. A lot of rules that stem from an isolated island nation that obsesses on structure and vague concepts of honor.

I don't hate Hakuho, I usually like his antics and think he's good for sumo. I agree he's the greatest in modern history. That just doesn't change the philosophy of sumo, a yokozuna is more than a record and that's always been emphasized. Measuring by wins alone is an individualist mentality, sumo is a sport of the collective identity, standing out is important but sumo as whole in all it's traditions is priority #1.
 
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First off, leading the elbow with a slap is not some big brained move that only a great yokozuna could achieve. It's well executed for sure, but is hardly technical.

You're not fully grasping the analogy. By MMA standards, Jones is unbecoming of a champion, his use of eyepokes and oblique kicks are beneath him and cause many to debate where he really stands when on paper he would appear to be the greatest ever. His behavior outside reflects poorly on the sport. That's the standard in MMA, and sumo has it's own unique standards.

Same thing with your race analogy, the one and only goal of a sprint is to see who reaches the finish line the fastest. It's as simple as it gets. Sumo is on the other end of the spectrum, thanks to it being so tied to religion, philosophy, and culture, it's very complicated and nuanced. A lot of rules that stem from an isolated island nation that obsesses on structure and vague concepts of honor.

I don't hate Hakuho, I usually like his antics and think he's good for sumo. I agree he's the greatest in modern history. That just doesn't change the philosophy of sumo, a yokozuna is more than a record and that's always been emphasized. Measuring by wins alone is an individualist mentality, sumo is a sport of the collective identity, standing out is important but sumo as whole in all it's traditions is priority #1.

hard to bring mma into this context because as far as mma fans go, every single champ has something you could say is unbecoming. From Henry and his bullshit, stipe losing to Struve, Conor, Khabib and his dictator friends, etc. The only one I can think gets close to perfection is GSP and even him had that iffy “unbecoming” bisping fight his detractors loved bringing up.

the problem here is the hypocrisy surrounding Hakuho because if he was Japanese, say it was asanoyama beating Teru in the final match with that elbow, you beat your ass half the people talking right now would simply shut up. Deep inside a lot of people wanted for teru to finally shut hakuho down and it didn’t work out. People are venting.

the elbow strike is obviously not technical or complicated much in the way a jab isn’t technical or complicated but it’s the way the best use it as opposed to the lesser boxers who just throw it out. Hakuhos elbow means business and wins him matches.
Honestly if the elbow is such a big deal just remove it from the rule book and that’s that.

but of course then Hakuho would start to use his shoulder to win and all Japan would complain as now shoulders would be unbecoming of Yokozuna.

sumo is a sport surrounded by tradition and religion sure but it is a sport and the idea is to win.

Also, we are only talking about Japan here, Hakuho is revered in Mongolia and over there believe me the conversation is very different, believe me over there the collective identity is all about Hakuho conquering another yusho in a mongol vs mongol classic final match. It’s just the closed minded Japanese who take a bit too much issue whenever a foreigner keeps winning on their national sport.
 
hard to bring mma into this context because as far as mma fans go, every single champ has something you could say is unbecoming. From Henry and his bullshit, stipe losing to Struve, Conor, Khabib and his dictator friends, etc. The only one I can think gets close to perfection is GSP and even him had that iffy “unbecoming” bisping fight his detractors loved bringing up.

the problem here is the hypocrisy surrounding Hakuho because if he was Japanese, say it was asanoyama beating Teru in the final match with that elbow, you beat your ass half the people talking right now would simply shut up. Deep inside a lot of people wanted for teru to finally shut hakuho down and it didn’t work out. People are venting.

the elbow strike is obviously not technical or complicated much in the way a jab isn’t technical or complicated but it’s the way the best use it as opposed to the lesser boxers who just throw it out. Hakuhos elbow means business and wins him matches.
Honestly if the elbow is such a big deal just remove it from the rule book and that’s that.

but of course then Hakuho would start to use his shoulder to win and all Japan would complain as now shoulders would be unbecoming of Yokozuna.

sumo is a sport surrounded by tradition and religion sure but it is a sport and the idea is to win.

Also, we are only talking about Japan here, Hakuho is revered in Mongolia and over there believe me the conversation is very different, believe me over there the collective identity is all about Hakuho conquering another yusho in a mongol vs mongol classic final match. It’s just the closed minded Japanese who take a bit too much issue whenever a foreigner keeps winning on their national sport.
Jon is uniquely polarizing and uniquely dominant, much like Hakuho. You still seem to be missing the point for the sake of arguing.

If they're so racist, they wouldn't make a big deal out of Terunofuji and would criticize him for taking so much time off. They wouldn't have announced early that he was likely getting promoted.

The jab is very technical, I might argue it's the most technical punch there is because it's used to essentially set up every other punch. It's not Muay Thai, knocking an opponent out isn't the goal, him throwing the shot with venom isn't special.

You saying sumo is a sport and the purpose is to win is just fundamentally incorrect. "Fighting Spirit" is highly valued, it's why you saw absurdly outmatched guys brought back over and over to be stomped by murderers in Pride, they gave their all and fought with "honor", refusing to cut weight for an advantage or resorting to point fighting. It's just part of what sumo is and that mentality is more ingrained in sumo than anything else.
 
Jon is uniquely polarizing and uniquely dominant, much like Hakuho. You still seem to be missing the point for the sake of arguing.

If they're so racist, they wouldn't make a big deal out of Terunofuji and would criticize him for taking so much time off. They wouldn't have announced early that he was likely getting promoted.

The jab is very technical, I might argue it's the most technical punch there is because it's used to essentially set up every other punch. It's not Muay Thai, knocking an opponent out isn't the goal, him throwing the shot with venom isn't special.

You saying sumo is a sport and the purpose is to win is just fundamentally incorrect. "Fighting Spirit" is highly valued, it's why you saw absurdly outmatched guys brought back over and over to be stomped by murderers in Pride, they gave their all and fought with "honor", refusing to cut weight for an advantage or resorting to point fighting. It's just part of what sumo is and that mentality is more ingrained in sumo than anything else.

I think at this point is pretty clear that we just disagree in everything. And that’s ok

the Jones with Hakuho comparison in my opinion couldn’t be more wrong. Jones is not dominant, he rarely fights and I think he lost his last two fights as does a good majority.

Secondly, Hakuho behaves every bit a Yokozuna when he is off the ring, he is a respectful family man who helps his stablemates.

Jones has been arrested, if Jones was a Yokozuna he would have been forced to retire already, if not for the hit and run then for the roids.

his techniques are frowned upon only by those who are on the receiving end of such techniques, those who do not have the ability to perform them.

it’s not that I argue for the sake of arguing, it’s just that I think you are wrong, you think I am, that’s all, it’s not really that big of a deal, we’re not the last two guys that will diverge in this topic.

I personally think getting a knee surgery, coming back to compete while clearly not 100% and using every single bit of experience and knowhow learned over his career to defeat this monster of an ozeki that seemed unbeatable, is one of the most Yokozuna things I’ve ever seen in my life. The way Hakuho instantly looked at this crew in the hallway and they were all jumping and celebrating.

he didn’t look unworthy, he just looked human
 
I think at this point is pretty clear that we just disagree in everything. And that’s ok

the Jones with Hakuho comparison in my opinion couldn’t be more wrong. Jones is not dominant, he rarely fights and I think he lost his last two fights as does a good majority.

Secondly, Hakuho behaves every bit a Yokozuna when he is off the ring, he is a respectful family man who helps his stablemates.

Jones has been arrested, if Jones was a Yokozuna he would have been forced to retire already, if not for the hit and run then for the roids.

his techniques are frowned upon only by those who are on the receiving end of such techniques, those who do not have the ability to perform them.

it’s not that I argue for the sake of arguing, it’s just that I think you are wrong, you think I am, that’s all, it’s not really that big of a deal, we’re not the last two guys that will diverge in this topic.

I personally think getting a knee surgery, coming back to compete while clearly not 100% and using every single bit of experience and knowhow learned over his career to defeat this monster of an ozeki that seemed unbeatable, is one of the most Yokozuna things I’ve ever seen in my life. The way Hakuho instantly looked at this crew in the hallway and they were all jumping and celebrating.

he didn’t look unworthy, he just looked human
It's totally fine to disagree. I just don't think you are making an attempt to understand the argument. The standards are different by sport and even further differentiated by rank. The Jones comparison is to give you relative context.

I agree, Hakuho is doing amazing things for sumo outside of competition. I was talking more so the celebrations and whatnot.

There have absolutely been talks of Takakeisho not having "ozeki" sumo because of his reliance on tsuppari attacks and blasting tachiais. It goes beyond Hakuho, Hakuho is just held to a higher standard that goes beyond his ethnicity, which does play at least a small factor.
 
I think if they have a problem with Hakuho's forearm smash, they should just ban it. If it's legal but just makes them sad, he clearly isn't going to stop.

His emotional response after beating Terunofuji, I can't get mad at it. Hakuho went through so much. Injuries, everyone talking about his need to retire, being written off by everyone and to comeback and go 15-0 I know its tradition and all but there's so much emotion involved with his journey. It's almost impossible to hold it back.

Just curious, I know the standards are totally different. Did anyone give Tokushoryu shit for crying after he won? I'm not comparing them, just wondering
 
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Hakuho himself considers the Shodai tachiai a mark of Napoleonic Genius. So, get fucked Hakkaku. If you don't like it, ban it and stop this half assed oh we strongly disapprove of this currently legal tactic.
 
I find it interesting that someone would criticize Hakuho for the Shodai match but not criticize shodai for how awful and terrified he looked, he was even worse than tobizaru, at least tobi trolled around a little bit but shodai is an ozeki, yet they just focus on Hakuho. He even allowed shodai to try something.
 
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