Sugar Ray Robinson as welterweight footage found!

[Cheese]

I think the case with Johnson/Ali would depend on the Ref. Alot of the footage i seen with Jack he hits and holds/Tie up and hits. Ali did too but not at the pace Jack did. The holding could take away alot of Ali speed. Ali could try to move and pop shot but Jack speed wasn't slow. So there would be times were he could jump in on Ali and hit him and tie him up. I think he would doing it most of the fight and control Ali. Plus Jack used alot of feints and that would be a good way to slow Ali's jab.

But maybe Ali does just move around Jack like he standing still and make him look foolish but i think Jack could hang with Ali.

 

[Simmo84]

Anyone recall Champions Forever? Holmes bragging he would have beaten them all ... "Only one I would have had problems with is Jack Johnson."

 

[mozfonky]

Johnson fought unlimited rounds in 100 degree sunshine and under different rules. You think maybe he'd be able to adapt his style/tempo for a 12 rounder in an air conditioned arena?

those limitless rounds really were often slowly paced. Johnson supposedly did fight at a very slow, long pace where he'd stall action. Johnson was called a "giant" in his day but Ali was a size bigger and most likely dramatically faster, not to mention the advent of movement, it would have all been way too much for Johnson. I really don't want to sound down on these guys, they were the best of their times but they look bad, very bad oftentimes, watch how Johnson throws punches, watch his body mechanics, those would be called "arm punches" today. We must respect these men, without them, boxing wouldn't have reached the point it did but for me, I can't see them being competitive much less winning against any good modern fighter.

 

[mozfonky]

Anyone recall Champions Forever? Holmes bragging he would have beaten them all ... "Only one I would have had problems with is Jack Johnson."

ya i recall. Holmes is wrong though, he would have had problems with lots of fighters even though he probably could have beaten most of the great heavyweights. Bert Sugar had Larry outside of the top ten, that's criminal really. I don't think he should be any lower than five myself and I couldn't stand the guy. Bert Sugar was a trip.

 

[MEGAhorse]

Harry Greb's Stats from boxrec

Harry Greb
Global ID 9019
sex male
birthdate 1894-06-06
death date 1926-10-22 (32)
division middleweight
stance orthodox
height 5′ 8″ / 173cm
reach 71″ / 180cm
alias Pittsburgh Windmill
country USA
residence Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
birth place Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
birth name Edward Henry Greb
won 104 (KO 48) + lost 8 (KO 2) + drawn 3 = 116
rounds boxed 971
Newspaper Decisions won 158 : lost 9 : drawn 16
rounds boxed 1619
Total Bouts 299 KO% 16.05

 

[MEGAhorse]

Sort Bio

Harry Greb had a remarkable career, finishing with over 200 total bouts. In 1913 he had been laying tin roofs in Pittsburgh for $12 a week, thinking he was making good money. By 1917 he reportedly was making $33,000 a year in the ring. Nov. 6, 1917 Tacoma Times [1].
Greb took part in the Anglo-American Service Tournament in London, December 11-13, 1918. On December 11 he knocked out Cpl. Green and Sgt. Baker in 1 round each. On December 12 he was declared loser to Charlie Ring in 3 rounds. Upon returning home to Pittsburgh he described his fights to the Pittsburgh Post. He said that he lost to Ring because of warnings from the referee for dirty tactics and claimed he really had much the best of the action.
He fought an exhibition against Kid Lewis 1-22-1925 "This affair was billed as an exhibition, but Lewis quickly turned it into a serious affair. He started out viciously, swinging a hard left hook to Greb's head. That was it for the "husky, dusky battler," because Greb quickly danced inside and let go a powerful left hook to the body which put Lewis down and out."
"Harry Greb, middleweight boxing champion. was seriously injured early this evening when his automobile overturned a few miles from this city. He was brought to the West Penn Hospital, where physicians said he suffered two fractured ribs and cuts and bruises on his back and chest." New York Times Aug. 21, 1925
Greb died in Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA, from complications following eye surgery.
As of January 2009, a biography of Greb is available. It is The Fearless Harry Greb, by Bill Paxton (McFarland and Company, Inc., Jefferson, North Carolina and London. The reader is warned against taking seriously the only other Greb biography, Leave Him to the Angels, by James Fair. Paxton's book contains a record that gives Greb's brief amateur record, and some exhibitions.
Known Amateur Bouts

1913
10 Mar W.J. Miller Pittsburgh, PA W3 (amateur)
11 Mar Al Storey Pittsburgh, PA W3 (amateur)
12 Mar Red Cumpston Pittsburgh, PA W4 (amateur)
4 Apr George Koch Pittsburgh, PA W4 (amateur)
5 Apr Red Cumpston Pittsburgh, PA W6 (amateur)
8 May Red Cumpston Pittsburgh, PA W4 (amateur)


Greb throwing a wicket left hook

 

[MEGAhorse]

Sugar Ray Robinson while he still held the welterweight title.

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