The problem here is that you don't understand physiology. You can't say that sugar causes insulin spikes, because it doesn't compared to most other foods. And you can't claim that spiking insulin is bad and starches aren't as bad as sugar, because starches spike insulin more than sugar (hell, PROTEIN spikes insulin about as much or more than sugar). And you can't even claim that spiking insulin is bad, because it isn't in the first place. These are intractable facts of human physiology, and if you don't believe them then you're wrong and it's time to start doing some more studying on your own.
Would you mind telling me your background in the medical / physiology field?
Also a lot of the bad things you listed, let's talk about those...
A fucking enormous amount of those problems come from people that go on this diet and start eating only fucking meat, cream, fat, etc. They cut out vegetables, they're not having like roasted peppers and lettuce / salads etc. They're eating WAY too fucking much red meat on the diet. That's equivilant to me saying "Well look at all the fuckers that get REALLY fucking fat on normal carb / sugar diets." I could list you hundreds more connected side effects (with causal, not correlative studies) linking high carb / high sugar diets to heart disease, obesity, diabetus, and much worse shit.
But yeah, you can't just stop eating carbs and expect everything to be good.
And let's look at the single study where your entire list of possible side effects came from that you made sure to emphasize... I quote from that same study paper
"Serious complications of the ketogenic diet appear to be rare. Livingston summarized his experience with 1000 patients at Johns Hopkins Hospital in 1972 and reported no serious complications."
Page 634 of that study. Also under every side effect, they basically have a 'simple treatment' method advised... Because every side effect is just someone that doesn't know what the fuck they're doing... IE: Kidney stones: Increase fluid (drink water which btw, high carb people get those as well, that's just not drinking water and having a lot of red meat / salt etc)
Poor Growth: listed treatment "total protein, adequate protein"
Hyperlipidemia (too much fat in your blood): Just like how eating like 90% meat 5% fat 5% carbs will fuck you up, this is something that is only going to happen to someone that's eating 90% fats, 5% protein/meat 5% carbs.
A lot of your other results are also specific to children (Poor growth / delayed puberty especially) since all these studies were done studying epilepsy and not really the nutritional aspects of the diet.
Again I am not terminally defending the diet here. But you don't want to delve into the whole like... dick measuring contest of me pulling up fucking thousands of studies documenting the bad effects sugar has on your body. Because then your argument is "Well don't be retarded with your fucking normal, balanced carb / fat / protein diet."
To which my response will be "Well don't be retarded with your different fucking High fat / protein low carb diet."
Both can be shown to be completely fucking retarded when mismanaged. For example gout is typically caused by an extreme excess of protein.
Otherwise, start digging up direct scientific sources yourself because your current knowledge is lacking. Not trying to be a dick here or anything, just calling it like it is.
Bitch, you've literally picked 3 studies that didn't address ANY nutritional aspects of the diet and were entirely evaluating their efficacy as a way to reduce seizures that mention that it is possible that the diets could have those side effects. You're acting like you have an MD and i'm just a peasant or some shit.
Also you literally linked a blog, where I can't find a bio of who the fuck "evelyn" is. But blogs like that are a DIME a dozen. You can cherry pick tiny studies and little things that support the message you are trying to send which is, in this case that "keto is bullshit"
The blog's fucking header is...
"Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!
“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin "
That's someone looking for every tiny scrap of evidence they can find including a study they produly linked with like 12 people in it.
"Carbsane's" only actual accreditation listed on twitter (the only place I could find a bio for 'carbsane') is 'blogger'.
I think you are just as much of a bro scientist as anyone else. The difference between me and you is that I accept that everything 'carbsane' and you are saying could be true, but there are also dozens of studies that conclude different things.
Whenever you are LOOKING to make a point you can find research to prove you right. I am not claiming to prove you wrong. I think only idiots go looking for one clear answer and "I'm always fucking right you're always wrong. This diet is bullshit PURE bullshit."
You can tell me I don't know what i'm talking about. And that's ok, but I feel like if I talked to literally any objective, actual, professional, masters / PHD nutritionist about Ketogenic diets / low carb diets they wouldn't DARE give a definitive answer. Because generally an intelligent / objective scientist isn't that stupid. Acting like it's 100% understood, whether the conclusion is that it's bad or good is just wrong. You couldn't pull one study that's relevant to exactly what we're discussing. I wish there were more studies that were applicable to Keto as a general / broad diet for adults / specifically athletic adults.
But to my knowledge I can't really find any, and apparently you couldn't either. So why on earth would you act like it's all bullshit?
There's a reason you can go back to my FIRST post in the thread and see that I'm not even pushing the diet for others, and i'm not willing to say it's super legit / super effective. Because even though it works very well for me and I have a good experience with it. I'm not dumb enough to believe that the positive studies that I have read about it, and my experiences, are enough to conclude that this diet is legit as fuck and the only way to go and other people are idiots.
Where as you seem perfectly confident going with... small studies looking at young kids and teenagers not really evaluating nutrition.
Also as far as my apparently fucking awful understanding of insulin...
"These carbohydrates are composed of sugars (such as fructose and glucose) which have simple chemical structures composed of only one sugar (monosaccharides) or two sugars (disaccharides). Simple carbohydrates are easily and quickly utilized for energy by the body because of their simple chemical structure, often leading to a faster rise in blood sugar and insulin secretion from the pancreas – which can have negative health effects."
Source:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/
- Death from cardiac and immune complications (rare event, but they have been observed)
Oh and you said that but the studies actually said that the deaths in their selected long term subjects was unrelated to the diet. A lot of the kids that were getting studied on this diet had SERIOUS systematic health problems...
But yeah
TLDR: Calling me out for not knowing my shit when you link a blog with someone that has no scientific background whose soul purpose in life is to talk shit about low carb diets is pathetic. I'd like to see your scientific credentials. You've googled out of context studies about keto diets and are searching and ONLY looking for / at research that has even slight negative things to say about the keto diet (even the out of context studies all conclude that it's a viable / ok diet, but they weren't actually looking at weight loss / how effective it would be for an athlete or something)
But yeah, in conclusion: You're a bro scientist that doesn't know your shit just as much as I don't. Stop acting like you have an MD.
