Subs from Guard (top)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by VegasFighter**, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. VegasFighter**

    VegasFighter** Brown Belt

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    Sometimes I just simply cannot, break/pass someones guard. Other than a neck crank, are there any other subs you can do form this position??
     
  2. DMcKayBJJ

    DMcKayBJJ Blue Belt

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    Not really. You gotta pass.
     
  3. greasemonkey

    greasemonkey Banned Banned

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    god i hate when people neck crank me, but you can always go for a cross collar choke.
     
  4. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

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    If yoy go for a cross collar choke from the guard, you will get armbarred 9 times out of ten. Just face it, guard top is an inferior position when no strikes are involved.
     
  5. alexgncw

    alexgncw Guest

    absolute bullshit guard top is 1 step away from getting dominant position if you prefer to be on top of your opponent which i do and which you should unless your only goal is just sport jitsu then guard top is dominant to guard bottom even without strikes

    to answer the posters question - if you can open up their guard you got leg locks
     
  6. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

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    Of course ou are correct - side control, knee ride, mount etc....all really good attacking positions and infinately freferred to guard bottom. But guard top being "one step away" from side control is meaningless if, like our thread starter has, have a hard time passing. Superior/inferior position in BJJ primarily revolves around who has better control over his opponents body. If you can
     
  7. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    breaking guard will get easier with time. i used to have a hard time breaking guard, but it's very easy for me to do so now. if you cant break their guard, just wait for them or bait them to break their guard open when they do a submission, THEN that's when you can go for like a heel hook or achilles or even pass.
     
  8. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    You can break guard. Apparently you have some people who just lock on and don't let go with tight closed guards. I'm not really a guard pasing specialist, but here's a couple things that work for me.

    1) Stand up. Unless they're just completely static they'll try SOMETHING. Whatever they do, whatever it is, go for some kind of pass. Or...

    2) ...hug tight. That is, pull your legs up tight around they're hips and tuck your elbows tight around they're hips. The goal is to have your elbows touching your knees. Tuck your chin to your chest and just hold on. They'll start trying shit to pry you out of your mega-defensive position. If they're moving around and reaching to try stuff, you've got opportunities to break or pass. Or...

    3) Sit straight up (even look at the ceiling) and drive your fists into the guys stomach (keep your elbows tucked inside his thighs). Put your knee in his tailbone. Still sitting straight up, and with your knee still in his tailbone and fists in his stomach, push away hard. That is, scoot / twist backwards. His guard should crack enough for you to try something.

    As said earlier, don't go for subs. You'll be wasting your time. It's called the GUARD for a reason. It's a very safe position for the guy. You must pass it to do something (talking pure grappling here, no strikes).

    Another thing. Don't worry about passing the guard completely. Just go for getting one leg free. From his half-guard you can work on subs and / or getting your leg free.
     
  9. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    bubble boy, shoving the fists in the stomach sounds great. i got to try it tonight.
     
  10. 350 lbs fist

    350 lbs fist Black Belt

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    Be careful with the fists in the stomach! If your opponent is fast enough he can grab one of your elbows with both hands and pull you into a very painful wristlock. It's safer imo to hold and push down on the hips.
     
  11. That's the best way to open guard, IMO. Don't forget to keep good base guys.
     
  12. VegasFighter**

    VegasFighter** Brown Belt

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    thats the one i try to do the most, however unsucessfully. I will try some other methods you recomended. Thanks alot!
     
  13. Mirada

    Mirada Brown Belt

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    Yeah you can't really submit from inside a closed guard.


    If you really can't break someone's guard, you're going to have to bait them by "accidently" giving up an armbar or sweep and then capitalizing when they open their guard to attack you.
     
  14. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    why dont people just ever want to learn how to pass the guard rather than do some half ass submision from inside.

    The pass listed above works great to get guys to open up.. But i have a suggestion.. Insteaf od keeping both hands back in the stomach.. keep one near the pants of opponent and other right above stomach holding both lapels and pinning him to ground. Reason for this grip vs the other... is when a guy has his hands close together in the stomach his posture is easily broken.

    There are very few guys that can keep a guard completely closed if you just push your way out.. If they are playing an extremely tight closed guard game.. normaly means they dont have much to offer once its opened.. Open it up and pass...

    Work the passes your instrcutor shows you... Come in with a partner when no one else is there and drill the pass 20 times each side.. then switch.. Alternate till you cant do anymore. I do this every week with different moves.. Normaly work for an hour or two.. Has helped my game out by leaps and bounds.
    TRY HARDER Fajita
     
  15. Foul Breath

    Foul Breath Banned Banned

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    GUANTANAMO TORTURE = WAR ON TERROR. For your 'free
    Conclusion: Subs in someones guard don't work.
     
  16. alexgncw

    alexgncw Guest

    i just learned one the other day that works on white belts not any higher though ... reach behind you with the arm thats on the same side as the top leg of your opponents closed guard, wrap around the heal, twist your body and lock your hands together then start turning downward kinda hard to explain on here so ask your instructor but i've gotten people with this quite a few times (just watch for the triangle as you go to grab the ankle)
     
  17. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    Subs from inside the guard are unreliable at best, and though it's "one step away", if he can't open the guard, that one step is off a train platform to a cross country destination, and he's not holding a ticket.

    You should worry less about subbing him, and worry more about just putting pressure on him. Stack him up, move, making him uncomfortable, make HIM move. Additionally, one hand on his lapes, one on his pants by the hip, driving the hands to the ground while you got your knee in his ass and your back straight ("Combat Base", ha ha...), is a great way to open him up. Once open, a great pass presents itself when he goes after your arm:

    Thread one arm under his leg, grab his opposite pantleg, and press your fist to the floor (still holding the pants) while you pin his hand on that same side (whichever hand he made a grab at you with/you got a hold of). Turn your shoulder into his top leg so you're looking the same way he is (he should be stuck on his side right now), push your hips back and walk your knee around to his hip. If he tries to stop you form walking around his legs by pushing your head (his only real option, since you should have great control of his limbs right now), simply hop back over his legs (turn the opposite direction) and you have his back. The important thing is to keep that wrist pinned until you're in position. This pass works gi or no gi, just with slight variation on the grips.

    So, to reiterate, get in your breaking posture, and break his guard. Let's say he grabs your wrists/sleeve ends (common). In turn, grab his with your right hand, and pin it to the floor beside you. Thread your left arm under his right leg and grab his pants on his left leg near the thigh, and pin that leg. He is now on his side, and you're likely close yourself. Turn the rest of the way, keeping your shoulder pressed into his thigh (make it hurt). Walk counter clockwise around his legs. If he pushes your head back towards his feet, throw your feet to the other side.

    Worst case scenario, he manages to turtle when you hop over, but with practice you'll have him every time.

    This pass is even better when he tries half-butterfly or is going for a scissor sweep (he practically puts hismelf in the position imediately for the sweep).
     
  18. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    This is why I prefer to use the elbows to put pressure on the stomach, go quite high up so the elbow is just underneath the sternum (solar plexus sort of area) and you can cause a lot of discomfort.

    There are a few leglocks that are a bit tricky but do work I use the Quasimodo leg lock a fair bit, reach behind with one arm to hook the leg that is uppermost and pull it down over the other leg to extend the ankle and pressure the achilles, despite what a lot of people on here may say this is not a move that only works on white belts but does require a bit of practice and some speed to pull off. If you tuck the other elbow tight to your body while attempting this you wont get triangled.

    If your opponent does not let go, even if you stand up, then you can drive over the top or turn them into a half boston crab (there was a video posted yesterday I think of this happening and the guy getting a back injury) this is very tricky and requires good balance but if it does'nt work properly you will normally endup having broken guard and may well have a good position to leglock from.

    The best way to set up a leglock is to stack your opponent up high and step one leg over from the outside onto their chest. You then stand up and fall backwards controlling the leg, I've rolled with guys upwards of 250lbs and noone has yet been able to hold onto me.
     
  19. DonkeyKong

    DonkeyKong Frazier > Ali

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    thats a quasimodo lock.
     
  20. TapouTime

    TapouTime Guest

    There is one submission you can do if you are wearing a gi lock an ezikiel and crank hard but its a gameble cause of the arm bar so its like a rac to see who can hold on.. i wouldnt recommend it to anyone if someone did it to me i would armbar the shit out of them... but ive seen it done in comp.. but really?? pass the guard thats 50% of jiu jitsu... pass the guard
     

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