Submission by setup or transition

[ozyabbas]

I was wondering if any other high blues or above feel that they are getting their submissions more from transitions than direct set-ups as they become more experienced. Especially against other experienced guys.

An example would be moving up the persons body in the mount till their elbows go up high, then going into the s-mount then getting an armbar from there.

There are two different transitions, ones from where you capitalise on your opponent making a mistake and the other is if they defend one submission you already had the next waiting for them.

So the example of the first one would be if you were doing a cross choke from mount and they managed to do a clumsy reversal, you get a triangle as you are being turned over.

The example of the second would be if they defend an armbar, pulling one arm out then transition to a triangle.

 

[armtriangle]

i think its really the thing... you are just finding things without thinking- which is good. Whether you were conscious of the setup or not, dont think it matters. you just react and your muscles remember.

but to answer your question, more the 2nd. My set-up more often sets up something i wasnt intending

 

[onepointeighty]

im still a white belt but i feel the transitional period is best because you have the element of surprise. they usually dont expect the transition and end up caught

 

[Hit-or-be-hit]

i like to poke someone in the eyes and then go 4 a hand choke
for some reason people dont like when i do that but hey it works!
haha they lose to a spaz!

 

[Sohan]

i like to poke someone in the eyes and then go 4 a hand choke
for some reason people dont like when i do that but hey it works!
haha they lose to a spaz!

You must be the pride of your school...

 

[A.Silvap4pbest]

When I am grappling I usually like to make the person I am grappling against be the aggresser and once he makes a mistake I capitalize like he puts his hands on the mat or leaves he neck out.

 

[FLMikeATT]

A mix of both for me.

I hit a lot of subs off 'nontraditional' setups, or just subs on the fly. Mostly armlocks and leglocks as these are more readily available in transitions than other subs that you have to actually setup like certain lapel chokes.

Lately it seems like I usually take time to set up a choke (eg x choke, single wing, bow and arrow), whereas I can get armlocks and leg locks in a split second, where I'm reacting to a mistake my opponent makes.

 

[Zankou]

That's a surprisingly interesting question.

For me, I prefer the setup more. I don't "catch" people so often as I try to slowly bury them into worse and worse situations. I don't think of a transition as a different thing than a setup, really. But a transition sounds like you 'catch' the guy doing it, rather than systematically working your way forward.

My professor used to tell me over and over not to try so hard to finish the submission, and instead to just "flow" from there. Now I feel like I know what he meant -- a submission IS a position, not a destination. I don't need to look to certain combinations, or to finish at all. Instead of getting stuck on a single submission, I just look to get further and further and further ahead, constantly moving. Get in that zone where my opponent feels like he is defending an unending blizzard of attacks. Do I care if any of them succeed? Not really. I'm just looking to get into that zone and stay there.

 

[hayliks]

setups create opportunities that open submissions through transition

 

[Zankou]

setups create opportunities that open submissions through transition

That's a good and simple way of putting it. A setup is a position which forces your opponent to make vulnerable transitions. That's why you want to work on getting and staying in those types of positions, looking to catch your opponent as he struggles to escape within them.

 

[ozyabbas]

A mix of both for me.

I hit a lot of subs off 'nontraditional' setups, or just subs on the fly. Mostly armlocks and leglocks as these are more readily available in transitions than other subs that you have to actually setup like certain lapel chokes.

Lately it seems like I usually take time to set up a choke (eg x choke, single wing, bow and arrow), whereas I can get armlocks and leg locks in a split second, where I'm reacting to a mistake my opponent makes.

I think its a mix of both for most people but with a percentage to each one.

I would say it also depends on your position, when I have their back or top control then most of my submissions are through set ups. Were as from the open guard it would usually be by transition. I don't get that many submissions in closed guard against good guys, only use it to catch them as they try to open the guard or to rest and get my bearings against a really aggressive guy when I need a break.

 

[Delbjj]

Transitions for me, setups are very helpful in forcing the transitions.

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

I agree with Zankou and Hayliks here.

Don't really see that much of a difference in approach.

The key is being ahead of the opponent. That is the feeling you get when rolling with a really good Blackbelt. He already knows where you're going before you do.