Study Suggest Some Couples in Canada use Abortion as Method to Prenatal Sex Selection

[JudoThrowFiasco]

New research is revealing evidence that some couples in Canada are practicing prenatal sex selection. This refers to parents who chose to abort a child based on their sex. Two related studies found a higher-than-expected ratio of boys to girls born to immigrants from India over the past two decades and researchers link those numbers to preceding abortions.

This gender imbalance was striking among families that already had two daughters. The two studies was led by Dr Marcelo Urquia, who is a researcher at St.Michael’s Hospital in Toronto. He suggests his research shows many of the abortions may have involved female fetuses and that’s why the sex ratio at the third birth is distorted. To put the numbers in perspective Urquia found in Canadian-born mothers 105 boys were born for every 100 girls, consistent with the natural odds of 103 to 107 boys for every 100 girls; however, by contrast, among Indian-born mothers, the proportion of males increased with the number of children born. By the third birth, 138 boys were born to Indian-born mothers for every 100 girls, and by the fourth birth, 166 boys were born to every 100 girls.


http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2016/04/11/cmaj.151074.full.pdf+html

Abstract from study:

Abstract
Background: Skewed male:female ratios at birth have been observed among certain immigrant groups. Data on abortion practices that might help to explain these findings are lacking.

Methods: We examined 1 220 933 births to women with up to 3 consecutive singleton live births between 1993 and 2012 in Ontario. Records of live births, and induced and spontaneous abortions were linked to Canadian immigration records. We determined associations of male:female infant ratios with maternal birthplace, sex of the previous living sibling(s) and prior spontaneous or induced abortions.

Results: Male:female infant ratios did not appreciably depart from the normal range among Canadian-born women and most women born outside of Canada, irrespective of the sex of previous children or the characteristics of prior abortions. However, among infants of women who immigrated from India and had previously given birth to 2 girls, the overall male:female ratio was 1.96 (95% confidence interval [CI] 1.75-2.21) for the third live birth. The male:female infant ratio after 2 girls was 1.77 (95% CI 1.26-2.47) times higher if the current birth was preceded by 1 induced abortion, 2.38 (95% CI 1.44-3.94) times higher if preceded by 2 or more induced abortions and 3.88 (95% CI 2.02-7.50) times higher if the induced abortion was performed at 15 weeks or more gestation relative to no preceding abortion. Spontaneous abortions were not associated with male-biased sex ratios in subsequent births.

Interpretation: High male:female ratios observed among infants born to women who immigrated from India are associated with induced abortions, especially in the second trimester of pregnancy.

India has a very patriarchal society, in which sons are expected to take care of the families after a certain point. Furthermore, the dowry for females are very expensive and coupled with the fact that 90% of Indian marriages are arranged. However, Canada is much different than India. The burden of the sons is less, social programs alleviate many of the financial costs and the dowry system seems to be far less of an issue (presumably among Indian people living in Canada?) So i cant say i am on board with the right to choose extending to the child's sex; at least when abortion is the method.

The thing that is making me think hard about this is: even though i am against abortions for sex selection, i would be okay by sex selection via genetic manipulation on the Chromosome level.

I know many people, from all sides of the political spectrum will be against something like abortions for the purpose of gender preferecne; especially the religious right. However, i am curious on the thoughts of people who have the broadest definition of the term "pro choice" - does that choice include abortions for the purpose of gender selection?

Also, this shit better not be covered by OHIP.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Would the thread title be more accurate if it said "India-born mothers" instead of "some couple"?
Not judging, its just what I got out of the OP.

 

[indo80]

New research is revealing evidence that some couples in Canada are practicing prenatal sex selection. This refers to parents who chose to abort a child based on their sex. Two related studies found a higher-than-expected ratio of boys to girls born to immigrants from India over the past two decades and researchers link those numbers to preceding abortions.

This gender imbalance was striking among families that already had two daughters. The two studies was led by Dr Marcelo Urquia, who is a researcher at St.Michael’s Hospital in Toronto. He suggests his research shows many of the abortions may have involved female fetuses and that’s why the sex ratio at the third birth is distorted. To put the numbers in perspective Urquia found in Canadian-born mothers 105 boys were born for every 100 girls, consistent with the natural odds of 103 to 107 boys for every 100 girls; however, by contrast, among Indian-born mothers, the proportion of males increased with the number of children born. By the third birth, 138 boys were born to Indian-born mothers for every 100 girls, and by the fourth birth, 166 boys were born to every 100 girls.


http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2016/04/11/cmaj.151074.full.pdf+html

Abstract from study:




India has a very patriarchal society, in which sons are expected to take care of the families after a certain point. Furthermore, the dowry for females are very expensive and coupled with the fact that 90% of Indian marriages are arranged. However, Canada is much different than India. The burden of the sons is less, social programs alleviate many of the financial costs and the dowry system seems to be far less of an issue (presumably among Indian people living in Canada?) So i cant say i am on board with the right to choose extending to the child's sex; at least when abortion is the method.

The thing that is making me think hard about this is: even though i am against abortions for sex selection, i would be okay by sex selection via genetic manipulation on the Chromosome level.

I know many people, from all sides of the political spectrum will be against something like abortions for the purpose of gender preferecne; especially the religious right. However, i am curious on the thoughts of people who have the broadest definition of the term "pro choice" - does that choice include abortions for the purpose of gender selection?

Also, this shit better not be covered by OHIP.

As a indian dude i can shed some light on this subject. In canada sikh women have like 1.67 children per women and hindu women have 2.0 children per women thus we are talking about very few people who do this. Indians in Canada do not have high birth rates and they only go for the 3rd or 4th child if the first two were girls. Even by those statistics you can see that the majority still keep the third girls or the fourth girl so abortion is a very difficult decision.

One of my uncles in India some 35 years ago had 8 daughters and did not abort any of them. His quest was to have a son which he never achieved and this guy was a lower middle class guy. Just imagine being lower middle class in India 35 years ago and have the burden of 8 daughters. The man dealt with it and he was always my favourite uncle, respectable human being.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Well I mean, it's just a fetus. Sure it's old enough to have its sex identified. But whatever. Just scramble it's brains because it has a pussy.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Would the thread title be more accurate if it said "India-born mothers" instead of "some couple"?
Not judging, its just what I got out of the OP.

Thought about it but i went with not race baiting the title; even though its completely based on Indian born women. I think people will get the scope of the study from reading the body of the OP.

I'll change it and see if it makes a difference.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

As a indian dude i can shed some light on this subject. In canada sikh women have like 1.67 children per women and hindu women have 2.0 children per women thus we are talking about very few people who do this. Indians in Canada do not have high birth rates and they only go for the 3rd or 4th child if the first two were girls. Even by those statistics you can see that the majority still keep the third girls or the fourth girl so abortion is a very difficult decision.

One of my uncles in India some 35 years ago had 8 daughters and did not abort any of them. His quest was to have a son which he never achieved and this guy was a lower middle class guy. Just imagine being lower middle class in India 35 years ago and have the burden of 8 daughters. The man dealt with it and he was always my favourite uncle, respectable human being.

While, obviously the majority of parents of Indian origin in Canada do not partake in this, i still see enough correlation and sample size to show it is a topic to look at.

 

[dontsnitch]

If abortion is legal (and moral), what's the problem?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Thought about it but i went with not race baiting the title; even though its completely based on Indian born women. I think people will get the scope of the study from reading the body of the OP.

I'll change it and see if it makes a difference.

It worked either way for me, I just wanted to be clear I wasn't missing anything.

While, obviously the majority of parents of Indian origin in Canada do not partake in this, i still see enough correlation and sample size to show it is a topic to look at.

I agree. This population, whether it be deliberate or as indo80 depicted, would be easier to spot a pattern, but I'm sure this happens more than we would think.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

If abortion is legal (and moral), what's the problem?

Is it moral?

 

[dontsnitch]

Is it moral?

I don't think so, but it's incredibly subjective. In any case, most people believe it is moral so it's irrelevant to them why the abortion takes place. Selecting for sex is just another plausible reason.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

It worked either way for me, I just wanted to be clear I wasn't missing anything.



I agree. This population, whether it be deliberate or as indo80 depicted, would be easier to spot a pattern, but I'm sure this happens more than we would think.

Judging by the results - there is an obvious pattern between women who had abortions, had children, both female and the 3rd and especially the 4th child being male. Indian women have very skewed ratios compared to the plethora of other women around the world with similar precursors.

 

[Awesomesauce]

The issue is the long term ramifications to the society as a whole of a large group of men for which there is no corresponding potential mate. Even worse that its a generally aggressive and patriarchal group like Canadian Indians tend to be.

 

[7437]

The issue is the long term ramifications to the society as a whole of a large group of men for which there is no corresponding potential mate. Even worse that its a generally aggressive and patriarchal group like Canadian Indians tend to be.

There are agressive canadians?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

The issue is the long term ramifications to the society as a whole of a large group of men for which there is no corresponding potential mate. Even worse that its a generally aggressive and patriarchal group like Canadian Indians tend to be.

This true. When potential mates are less available, some males become more detached from society and generally become extremely jaded. There are plenty of examples of this.

 

[sangreporsangre]

See my thing is I'm against this because if it was up to me you wouldn't be able to get an abortion after the first trimester let's say. You know, 3 months that's enough fuckin time to make up your mind. By the time it's developed enough to tell what sex it is, how could you still want to kill it? But it's legal so I don't want to hear the feminists crying about this. It's a woman's choice right so it doesn't matter what her reason is.

 

[Awesomesauce]

There are agressive canadians?

Oh god yes. There is a popular misconception about Canadians, that they aren't really an aggressive people. Canadians tend to be personable, but Canada is the Country of Mounties (if you know their history you would understand why its relevant), Hockey, Lacross, and recreational fighting the likes of which I have only seen in Russia.

 

[JDragon]

This is disgusting. Doctors need to be forbidden to tell or test for the sex of the kid before abortion deadlines.

 

[Throttlehead]

Oh god yes. There is a popular misconception about Canadians, that they aren't really an aggressive people. Canadians tend to be personable, but Canada is the Country of Mounties (if you know their history you would understand why its relevant), Hockey, Lacross, and recreational fighting the likes of which I have only seen in Russia.

What the hell are you talking about? Aggressive because of Mounties?

 

[oldshadow]

If you are pro choice and it should be entirely up to the woman then you have no right to be against this.

I understand this was common in India and they had taken steps to prevent it.

 

[Thurisaz]

Also very common in China, though it's been a thing there a lot longer than medical abortions.

Who would've guessed free right to kill off one's kids could lead to this?

...

Well, surprisingly many.