Struve, Nog, Bigfoot - at what point do the UFC say 'no mas'?

[gspieler]

You really think so?

I look at Bigfoot vs Hunt where Bigfoot had to cut down to 265, but did so and fought for 5 rounds like a giant iron-chinned kickboxing automaton, and then look at his horrible attempts to fight against Arlovski and Mir, and for me the difference is clear - pre and post TRT he is a completely different animal. He has always been bigger than 265 and has always cut, but it's only since the TRT ban that his physical attributes have declined so horribly.



Yeah but how many times should a guy with a heart condition be getting locked in a cage with the Overeems and Hunts of the world. I worry that he is being allowed to place himself in grave danger, when the more humane thing to do would be to refuse him that opportunity.



Agree 100%.

As far BF, I believe its the drastic cuts he goes through, which messes with his hormonal system. Being on T will negate those effects to some degree, and allow him to compete as if he were healthy at 280lbs, or whatever his cage weight is. But I could be wrong.

Ad far as Struve, only his physician would be able to say if he can compete without risk of a cardiac episode. If he has clearance, I think he could still do some good things in this sport. But he needs good coaching.

 

[Andy Capp]

I think it's sad, really, particularly in terms of the role the commission could play in reviewing these fighters' histories before issuing a license to fight. It seems all they look at is, did he pass his doctor's medical exam? For veteran fighters, I think this is negligent.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Grown men. Cleared by doctors.

Maybe internet wimps like us should stay out of it.

Just a thought

 

[Was Exiled]

Grown men. Cleared by doctors.

Maybe internet wimps like us should stay out of it.

Just a thought

Why should we trust the "clearing of doctors" employed by the Athletic Commissions when we see retired boxers with brain damage AND active fighters such as Roy Jones and James Toney with brain damage still being cleared by them? There's obviously a level of incompetence there.


edit: I could list a thousand other things displaying the incompetence of the Athletic Commisions. I don't think there's been a single fighter in the history of MMA to be denied a license to fight due to brain damage. That's a scary thought.

 

[Kick Strickland]

Idk but I suspect Mir can't be doing this for much longer, man. He wins big but he loses big too. He could end up being another Randy Couture though, who knows? He's not slurring his words yet at all, which is amazing.

 

[EuRapaz]

Why isn't Shogun in this conversation too?

Shogun is only 33, he is training with Rafael Cordeiro again. He still has a few years left.

 

[ivory suit]

Think this applies to shogun too

 

[Kelman]

Why isn't Shogun in this conversation too?

I don't see him as being in the same immediate danger. Shogun is worn down with age and wear n tear, but he doesn't have actual medical concerns right now the way the others do.

Also, Shogun was looking good vs Hendo before he got put out by one of the best punchers in the game. I haven't seen Nog or Bigfoot look good at all in recent times, and Struve has barely been active outwith a couple of bad losses.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Why should we trust the "clearing of doctors" employed by the Athletic Commissions when we see retired boxers with brain damage AND active fighters such as Roy Jones and James Toney with brain damage still being cleared by them? There's obviously a level of incompetence there.


edit: I could list a thousand other things displaying the incompetence of the Athletic Commisions. I don't think there's been a single fighter in the history of MMA to be denied a license to fight due to brain damage. That's a scary thought.

I care far more about the freedom of a person to choose the path of their own life, rather than the fears of keyboard worriers to rule someone else's.

 

[Kelman]

As far BF, I believe its the drastic cuts he goes through, which messes with his hormonal system. Being on T will negate those effects to some degree, and allow him to compete as if he were healthy at 280lbs, or whatever his cage weight is. But I could be wrong.

Ad far as Struve, only his physician would be able to say if he can compete without risk of a cardiac episode. If he has clearance, I think he could still do some good things in this sport. But he needs good coaching.

Fair points

 

[tucan89]

Well if the commission still allows it and they want to keep fighting who are they to stop them from fighting...

 

[Kelman]

I care far more about the freedom of a person to choose the path of their own life, rather than the fears of keyboard worriers to rule someone else's.

That's such a weird mindset. So if a fighter is CLEARLY suffering the physical and mental effects of a long career of head trauma but wants to keep fighting anyway, you're OK with that? No way man. Be serious. The fact that James Toney is still being cleared to fight is sickening.

 

[Kelman]

Well if the commission still allows it and they want to keep fighting who are they to stop them from fighting...

They're the organization that puts on the fights. Simple.

 

[Peteyandjia]

That's such a weird mindset. So if a fighter is CLEARLY suffering the physical and mental effects of a long career of head trauma but wants to keep fighting anyway, you're OK with that? No way man. Be serious. The fact that James Toney is still being cleared to fight is sickening.

You think you're some kind of hero, for wanting these people to just go away. And lose the way they live, the thing they love to do, the way they make money. With no regard for what they are supposed to do instead.

 

[Kelman]

You think you're some kind of hero, for wanting these people to just go away. And lose the way they live, the thing they love to do, the way they make money.

Yeah, that's exactly what's going on here. You're really intelligent.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Yeah, that's exactly what's going on here. You're really intelligent.

Thanks man. So are you.

 

[GOATTroll]

Struve has a heart problem and had a panic attack last time he tried to fight.
Last 2 fights: Knocked out by Overeem, knocked out by Hunt.

One of Nog's eyes doesn't work, he's nearly 40, and has a history of injuries to his hips, elbows, and knees, not to mention a broken arm in recent years.
Last 2 fights: Knocked cold by Nelson, subbed by Werdum

Bigfoot has a tumor on his pituitary gland, is 36 this year, and has basically looked unable to compete since they outlawed TRT.
Last 2 fights: KO'd in 1 round by Arlovski, KO'd in 1 round by Mir


At one point, allowing guys like this to fight is going to backfire badly on the UFC, as they really shouldn't still be getting cleared to fight in a cage. I wish the UFC would start some sort of pension plan for fighters, so they accumulate money while they fight and then get it as a lump sum when they retire, as I worry that these guys are dragging themselves into battle because they fear the loss of income, but seriously, should a guy with a heart issue or a one-eyed 40 year old or a walking zombie with clear health issues really be competing?

I feel uneasy about these fights. Hopefully all get through tonight unscathed, and consider moving on in life. Nog is a stone-cold ATG, Bigfoot has had some of the standout wins of his era (Fedor, Overeem), and Struve will always be remembered as an action fighter of the UFC, who went out there to kill (Miocic) or be killed (Hunt). None of them can go any further in the sport now even if they do choose to stick around.

If only more guys went out like Munoz - he knew when to stop and he stopped, with real dignity and shrewdness. That was a gold moment in this sport. Hope these three guys take the gloves off after tonight's event and do likewise.

"Old fighters have to be beaten into retirement" Boxing proverb

 

[Kelman]

"Old fighters have to be beaten into retirement" Boxing proverb

Er, they already have been (or should have been). Did you not see each guy's last 2 fights?

PS: Mark Munoz did it right.

 

[Andy Capp]

Struve is gonna prove alot of people wrong tonight, I think we'll see a greatly improved Skyscraper. Gooo struuuuuuve!

I will believe it when I see it, but I really hope so because he seems like a nice guy. Here's the thing: I was at UFC Japan when he fought Hunt. He came out the worst of it on the ground,

and, well, you may recall what happened standing:

Sorry about the quality. I was having too much fun to keep still.

In fairness, this was may have been before information about his heart condition surfaced, and if it has been treated, maybe he can really show now what he can do but man, he's got a long way to come from that performance to contender.

 

[Spycho]

I honestly all of them except Struve should hang it up after tonight. Hell, if Struve gets KO'd then him too.

At this point, anybody that gets KO'd in the UFC by Big Nog, should reconsider his profession. The guy moves and looks like he's 83.