Economy Striking garbage workers replaced with prison labor

I don't like the idea of for profit work being done by prison labor.
I would much rather see them do government or non-profit work.
It undercuts the market, terrible for workers.

But these workers need to be a little wiser. Temp workers going on strike? That's never going to end well, even for the most Noble causes.

Since this is collection for private residents, The correct solution would to raise everyone's hoa/condo fees to get these workers the safety equipment they need.
Either that or the company drops the contract and trash doesn't get picked up, because no company is going to lose money to pick up your trash
 
Temp employees utilized their first amendment right in freedom of expression and right to assembly.

But they forgot their employer is a private company, and just like twitter, youtube and Facebook, you don't have a right to use a company's own platform to espouse against their interest.

Liberals should be super happy.
More thought criminals punished.

Am I doing it right?
 
Bloody Pulp said:
they actually get paid and get job skills while serving their time.
Click to expand...

Might you expound upon these valuable job skills? Is there some data available on the training and market value of that training. It strikes me that anyone who can lift 50 lbs, has functional vision, and can operate a lever has aproximately 100% of the job skills required for collection. So it's just the $1.25 an hour

There's very little chance they are going to train these guys for CDLs and turn over the keys to a quarter million dollar truck.
 
Bloody Pulp said:
Read that definition you posted, “labor that is coerced.”

they aren’t coerced or forced to work, they can just sit in their housing unit and do nothing if they choose. They sign up to go work. The ones that do usually do it because it gets them out of the jail for awhile and they get to work outside and feel semi-normal and they actually get a little bit of money and training to boot.
Click to expand...

There's a bit of margin for debate about the coercion. These aren't choices they are making freely in a state of infinite possibility, these prisoners are being presented with 2 terrible options and opting for the least terrible.

These people exist in a perpetual state (presumably of thier own making) of being punished. So while there is no threat of additional punishment, being made, an offer of "you can work for less than your labor is worth, in fact so far under market value it would be illeagal to provide as compensation in the market, or you can sit and rot in a cell" isn't without an element of compulsion.
 
jx820 said:
Might you expound upon these valuable job skills? Is there some data available on the training and market value of that training. It strikes me that anyone who can lift 50 lbs, has functional vision, and can operate a lever has aproximately 100% of the job skills required for collection. So it's just the $1.25 an hour

There's very little chance they are going to train these guys for CDLs and turn over the keys to a quarter million dollar truck.
Click to expand...

i wasn’t just referencing this particular job. Obviously they would gain whatever training/experience from whichever job they do. CA used inmate work crews as volunteer firemen during the wildfires for example.

Does that mean someone with a criminal record will get hired by an FD after release? Not necessarily, but not impossible either. Remember the inmates eligible for this program are the lowest level offenders, and having a random misdemeanor arrest/conviction 5 years ago where you served a month in jail for whatever random charge isn’t necessarily going to prohibit them from applying for and landing a job they have some training/experience for.
 
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jx820 said:
There's a bit of margin for debate about the coercion. These aren't choices they are making freely in a state of infinite possibility, these prisoners are being presented with 2 terrible options and opting for the least terrible.

These people exist in a perpetual state (presumably of thier own making) of being punished. So while there is no threat of additional punishment, being made, an offer of "you can work for less than your labor is worth, in fact so far under market value it would be illeagal to provide as compensation in the market, or you can sit and rot in a cell" isn't without an element of compulsion.
Click to expand...

they can’t “choose” to rot in their cell. That is going to be imposed on them regardless. Giving them the option to go outside and work, for any sum, for part of the day if they choose to isn’t compulsion. Most would do it for free just to get out in the air for awhile. Read the Op-Ed I posted earlier, written by a former inmate worker.

Arguing against these programs is basically saying inmates should have to serve out their term in the jail with no diversion options, even if they want them.
 
The only problem I have is paying the crimals $1.40/hour. It should be zero.
 
Bloody Pulp said:
they can’t “choose” to rot in their cell. That is going to be imposed on them regardless. Giving them the option to go outside and work, for any sum, for part of the day if they choose to isn’t compulsion. Most would do it for free just to get out in the air for awhile. Read the Op-Ed I posted earlier, written by a former inmate worker.

Arguing against these programs is basically saying inmates should have to serve out their term in the jail with no diversion options, even if they want them.
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If you give them the option of doing something else, it is by definition a choice. It's just a terrible one.

I'm not taking a moral stance on the program per se. I'd probably lean toward the "it's slavery" side of things, due to the compensation provided, but I'm not incredibly well versed in it. I actually think that career training and work release programs for low level offenders are potentially great ideas if well executed.

I'm largely just splitting hairs over semantics. We've constructed our constitution to MAKE slavery legal in the case of prisoners so bitching about the fact that it happens rather than the fact that we intentionally made it legal and wont lift a finger to change it is pointless.
 
Fair enough, though I’d argue it’s more than just a semantic difference comparing slaves doing slave labor against their will and inmates choosing to go outside and work when they don’t have to.
 
Learn valuable skills doing the Job? Don't know what kind of radical skill you anticipate you would need to empty a Bin into a Hopper, the only skills you learn are that you will need Cytomel, Clenbuterol, Ibuprofen & a Codine Sulphate cocktail to deal with the ache's and pains of doing such a Job for any protracted period of time. In other-words your muscles ie: back and calf muscles will be screaming at you by the end of the day. They have a large number of vacancies across the service due to Covid-19 and these are filled by agency staff on zero hour contracts (who continually sign a document that waives their right to full time employment).

Some of these team members have worked as agency employees for several years without gaining full-time employment. Once we leave the depot, we travel to our work location and commence regardless of weather conditions. We are provided with personal protective equipment and waterproofs but they’re not the best, in fact the safety boots can shred your feet if your not used to them. The daily target is around 1,500 properties or approx 40 roads and not every Bin truck you happen to notice is going to be picking up the same Rubbish, there are multiple services, Refuse, Recycling and Food Waste & Garden Waste...

Why people do Garden waste amuses me, considering most of it is good compost and if they where any kind of gardener they wouldn't be throwing it away, likewise for the wood which can be used for a summers BBQ.

It is not unheard of to find someone from abroad does not understand "food waste" I myself have had to empty food bins that have been filled with Liquid Poop, then you find the occasional EPI-PEN in the recycle bin along with half a dozen used Covid tests.

Anyone know where the name Dustman originated? It originated from back in the days of Rag & Bone men & the great plague, because they came along with a Cart to remove the bodies and dusted them down with lime as they chucked them into a pit.

The refuse vehicle is around 12 tonnes when empty and twice that when full. The driver’s vision is limited and although there are cameras, these won’t stop a child from running around the back of the vehicle, or coming too close. They won’t stop a resident from attempting to throw their own waste into the back either. The issue with this is the lifting mechanism for the bins is automatic and is activated by a sensor, so when an untrained person gets close, they can be seriously injured because it can pick you up and throw you in at which point you'd have approx 12 seconds before the compactor goes and tries to chop you in half and this is whilst you could be suffering a concussion.

An I know all of this because I get out of bed at 3:30 to do it every-day for my Agency.
 
Hyperboria said:
Learn valuable skills doing the Job? Don't know what kind of radical skill you anticipate you would need to empty a Bin into a Hopper, the only skills you learn are that you will need Cytomel, Clenbuterol, Ibuprofen & a Codine Sulphate cocktail to deal with the ache's and pains of doing such a Job for any protracted period of time. In other-words your muscles ie: back and calf muscles will be screaming at you by the end of the day. They have a large number of vacancies across the service due to Covid-19 and these are filled by agency staff on zero hour contracts (who continually sign a document that waives their right to full time employment).

Some of these team members have worked as agency employees for several years without gaining full-time employment. Once we leave the depot, we travel to our work location and commence regardless of weather conditions. We are provided with personal protective equipment and waterproofs but they’re not the best, in fact the safety boots can shred your feet if your not used to them. The daily target is around 1,500 properties or approx 40 roads and not every Bin truck you happen to notice is going to be picking up the same Rubbish, there are multiple services, Refuse, Recycling and Food Waste & Garden Waste...

Why people do Garden waste amuses me, considering most of it is good compost and if they where any kind of gardener they wouldn't be throwing it away, likewise for the wood which can be used for a summers BBQ.

It is not unheard of to find someone from abroad does not understand "food waste" I myself have had to empty food bins that have been filled with Liquid Poop, then you find the occasional EPI-PEN in the recycle bin along with half a dozen used Covid tests.

Anyone know where the name Dustman originated? It originated from back in the days of Rag & Bone men & the great plague, because they came along with a Cart to remove the bodies and dusted them down with lime as they chucked them into a pit.

The refuse vehicle is around 12 tonnes when empty and twice that when full. The driver’s vision is limited and although there are cameras, these won’t stop a child from running around the back of the vehicle, or coming too close. They won’t stop a resident from attempting to throw their own waste into the back either. The issue with this is the lifting mechanism for the bins is automatic and is activated by a sensor, so when an untrained person gets close, they can be seriously injured because it can pick you up and throw you in at which point you'd have approx 12 seconds before the compactor goes and tries to chop you in half and this is whilst you could be suffering a concussion.

An I know all of this because I get out of bed at 3:30 to do it every-day for my Agency.
Click to expand...

So are you for or against prison labor doing city sanitation?
 
ultramanhyata said:
So are you for or against prison labor doing city sanitation?
Click to expand...

If all they're trying to pay them is $1.45 an hour definitely against.

None of us as Agency even get hazard pay, an lets be honest you are putting your own life at risk every day, a moment of leaning into the truck to empty a bin, thousands of nappies, doggie poop bags, bins filled with excrement and thousands of used covid tests and masks. Oh the test was plastic - better recycle it.. (Not)

I'd prefer not to handle that before I eat my sand-which on my break, but life's not always a bed of roses, people forget about the thorns.

Not advocating the liberal use of Performance Enhancers and Pain-Killers, just how I get through it, since starting the Job I've lost about 2 Stone and am slowly gaining the physic of my younger years. If you put a load of convicts to work, then you'd have to balance the risk, that they might go on a thieving spree off the company and if it's immigrants they wont last long under the physical regimen and wont know that the only way to do it is with a liberal dose of cheating to get yourself back to being fighting fit.

Because you get old and you get flabby with being cooped up in a lockdown and everyone panicking about masks and vaccines whilst your sitting down to a TV dinner and cookie and 1,500 houses a day, think heavy bottles of empty beer and wine, bending down and picking it up 1,500 times a day. Now that's better than a gym in my humble opinion.

One of the very first Jobs I landed when I left school was working in a hospital and at that time, I was immunized against both hepatitis A and hepatitis B and give my TB booster and I had the guts to take the live Variola vaccine, smallpox to the rest of us... A live virus culture that can in fact make you go blind, so I don't sweat all this severe respiratory syndrome from some guy running around in a lab coat with a lollipop stick up a bats bottom, if they're stupid enough to get bitten through there research gloves and spread it to everybody else, you might die from it, but having had it twice with no other symptoms than a nasty rash and a mild cough I can safely say I wont! Oh and for the record smallpox spreads by cough!

Economic Clarity: When people start talking about Blaming China for NIH American funded research in a Chinese lab and the same party then buries the research on what they mean by SARS - Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome and VARV - Variola Acute Respiratory Virus then the world starts to look like a very strange place indeed.
 
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ultramanhyata said:
So are you for or against prison labor doing city sanitation?
Click to expand...
I'm for it because it isn't benefiting private business - these are public services. What's the problem? Makes people uncomfortable that a bunch of lowlives are doing work?
 
Yehudim said:
I'm for it because it isn't benefiting private business - these are public services. What's the problem? Makes people uncomfortable that a bunch of lowlives are doing work?
Click to expand...

If I were forced to choose between convicts driving down blue collar wages and illegal immigrants driving them down I would pick the immigrants.

But thankfully I don't have to pick. And can reject both.
 
Hyperboria said:
If all they're trying to pay them is $1.45 an hour definitely against.

None of us as Agency even get hazard pay, an lets be honest you are putting your own life at risk every day, a moment of leaning into the truck to empty a bin, thousands of nappies, doggie poop bags, bins filled with excrement and thousands of used covid tests and masks. Oh the test was plastic - better recycle it.. (Not)

I'd prefer not to handle that before I eat my sand-which on my break, but life's not always a bed of roses, people forget about the thorns.

Not advocating the liberal use of Performance Enhancers and Pain-Killers, just how I get through it, since starting the Job I've lost about 2 Stone and am slowly gaining the physic of my younger years. If you put a load of convicts to work, then you'd have to balance the risk, that they might go on a thieving spree off the company and if it's immigrants they wont last long under the physical regimen and wont know that the only way to do it is with a liberal dose of cheating to get yourself back to being fighting fit.

Because you get old and you get flabby with being cooped up in a lockdown and everyone panicking about masks and vaccines whilst your sitting down to a TV dinner and cookie and 1,500 houses a day, think heavy bottles of empty beer and wine, bending down and picking it up 1,500 times a day. Now that's better than a gym in my humble opinion.

One of the very first Jobs I landed when I left school was working in a hospital and at that time, I was immunized against both hepatitis A and hepatitis B and give my TB booster and I had the guts to take the live Variola vaccine, smallpox to the rest of us... A live virus culture that can in fact make you go blind, so I don't sweat all this severe respiratory syndrome from some guy running around in a lab coat with a lollipop stick up a bats bottom, if they're stupid enough to get bitten through there research gloves and spread it to everybody else, you might die from it, but having had it twice with no other symptoms than a nasty rash and a mild cough I can safely say I wont! Oh and for the record smallpox spreads by cough!

Economic Clarity: When people start talking about Blaming China for NIH American funded research in a Chinese lab and the same party then buries the research on what they mean by SARS - Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome and VARV - Variola Acute Respiratory Virus then the world starts to look like a very strange place indeed.
Click to expand...
Join date: Today ??
THIS is the thread you created a Sherdog account for?

uuuuuummm,,, Welcome aboard?
 
So is there an update to this 18-month old story?

Prisoners still going door to door picking up trash?
 
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