Strength is specific

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

She's a freak outlier for having that kind of upper body strength but there's lots of girls out there who can squat or deadlift over 400 and without even being that big. It's not that rare

A lot more common than her bench, sure. But realistically speaking, how many HS girls do you think can squat/deadlift over 400? Maybe a handful per state?

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

A lot more common than her bench, sure. But realistically speaking, how many HS girls do you think can squat/deadlift over 400? Maybe a handful per state?

I would think more than that, especially in big states. Our varsity girls powerlifting team usually had 1-2 girls that could squat/deadlift that amount and we had a small school but the girls powerlifting team was really good. They won a lot more than any other boys or girls in other sports at our school

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

I would think more than that, especially in big states. Our varsity girls powerlifting team usually had 1-2 girls that could squat/deadlift that amount and we had a small school but the girls powerlifting team was really good. They won a lot more than any other boys or girls in other sports at our school

Interesting. I've read that they take HS powerlifting seriously in Texas, which you won't find in other states. Any videos of your school's lifting team?

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

Interesting. I've read that they take HS powerlifting seriously in Texas, which you won't find in other states. Any videos of your school's lifting team?

I don't have any, no but I know if you google the girls powerlifting team at Calhoun high a bunch of articles will pop up. They've been pretty successful at state and national competitions for a good while now

 

[Sano]

Well, it's depends. There's a lot of variables at play. Wrestling and striking exists at two different ends of the strength-velocity spectrum to a large degree. Maximal strength will be more important in wrestling, but explosiveness and being able to generate strength at moderate velocities still superseed that, in most instances. As far as the specificity of strength in general, you're not entirely off base, but not entirely on it either (setting aside the fighting example).

Strength adaptions can be non-specific to an extent (tissue strength, fiber characteristics, tendon stiffness, maximum voluntary contractions, injury reduction) and may transfer to other movements. You don't have to use deadlifts, squats, single leg exercises, rows and presses to build this, however those exercises are a good way of practicing basic movement patterns. At the same time, strength adaptions are also specific, and in some cases highly specific (velocity, dynamic/static, joint angles, surface, stability requirements, contraction velocities, contraction type, energy systems, and neuromuscular control/motor learning). Usually the higher the skill, the more specific the adaptions, or at least you need a certain type of strength at the exact moment during a movement to benefit the most. Another example is when something is biomechanically similar. The squat and the vertical jump have somewhat similar mechanics, and improving squat strength has shown to be able to improve vertical jump height, IF the weak point is maximum strength and not velocity (meaning it depends on the individual force-velocity profile).

Overall strength GPP seems to be benefical in reducing the risk of injury as well improving basic movement patterns and creating a foundation for building other attributes, like power, down the road. However, moving past that phase, either sport specific drills, or sport drills, are most likely more beneficial. The load ranges, velocities, exercise selection and so on depends on goal, I'd say.

I agree that compound movements require specific skill (more than some people give them credit for) that has just as much to do with practicing motor patterns and having the right leverages, as it does with maximum voluntary contractions (strength) of specific muscles.

She's a freak outlier for having that kind of upper body strength but there's lots of girls out there who can squat or deadlift over 400 and without even being that big. It's not that rare

She's such a specimen, it's quite amazing. Total freak, in a good way.

 

[Noodles03]

There many females even 130-150 range who were squatting and deadlifting that amount

Were they hot?

 

[No Skill Gap]

@ImmigrantMentality You have a skewed view of what numbers should be or...realistic ones are.

I was a very skinny kid, probably fucked myself over by not eating as much as I should have...anyway I was a ripped twink basically in HS. I weighed around 135-145 max, very lean. I started lifting around age 16 after I stopped training BJJ for awhile or...started back up, I forget.

Anyway, point being: I could deadlift 3 plates easily at ~135-140 lbs bw, I think my 1rm was 335 or so with a straight bar, conventional.

This isn't impressive. What I am saying is I was never in a caloric surplus really, I didn't have good programming...I had "fuck around itis" to some extent and did it myself, did not push that hard. And I'm 6 feet tall, so probably not ideal dimensions/weight. Yet I could pull ~315-350 at 135-155lbs BW from age 16-18.

I could walk up to the bar and do it pretty much.

Long story short: GSP defintiely deadlifts MORE than 400 lbs, not less. It's not even debatable. And you aren't considering how much stronger you get from working that movement pattern, neurological adaptation, linear progression alone.

Steroids or not, who knows, I bet GSP could easily get to a 600lb deadlift in no time, if he hasn't already achieved something close to that. If he focused his energy and time on deadlifting he could easily do that.

How many kids in HS, males...not even women here, are pulling 500+? 600? Not very many at all and most are probably roided out if they are. Otherwise they are genetic freaks. I don't think many girls in the world do that naturally, let alone in hs.

 

[No Skill Gap]

@ImmigrantMentality double post, but at the same time you are right in a sense.



Yes there are girls (most using PEDs let's be real) who can outlift similarly sized or larger MMA fighters. Girls like Stefi Cohen above. She pulls 500+ and weighs in the low 100s or something, probably 120s.

She is clearly on test/steroids imo, don't want to be the steroid police or accuse without proof but it's obvious, just like Claudia and Andrade are pretty obvious (and Cyborg of course, probably Holly).

So yeah I mean using test/steroids is dramatically different for a female given the differences in testosterone already. So how many girls pulling big numbers are clean? We don't really know.

Regardless it's very rare. I still think GSP could pull 500-600 and match/beat this girl, who's obviously smaller but is a world record super elite deadlifter. The other girl you posted...not to be mean or anything, clearly weighs more than GSP right? I mean if we are getting super heavyweights of course the outliers at bigger weight classes are going to move some impressive weight.

 

[DoomPatrol]

@ImmigrantMentality double post, but at the same time you are right in a sense.



Yes there are girls (most using PEDs let's be real) who can outlift similarly sized or larger MMA fighters. Girls like Stefi Cohen above. She pulls 500+ and weighs in the low 100s or something, probably 120s.

She is clearly on test/steroids imo, don't want to be the steroid police or accuse without proof but it's obvious, just like Claudia and Andrade are pretty obvious (and Cyborg of course, probably Holly).

So yeah I mean using test/steroids is dramatically different for a female given the differences in testosterone already. So how many girls pulling big numbers are clean? We don't really know.

Regardless it's very rare. I still think GSP could pull 500-600 and match/beat this girl, who's obviously smaller but is a world record super elite deadlifter. The other girl you posted...not to be mean or anything, clearly weighs more than GSP right? I mean if we are getting super heavyweights of course the outliers at bigger weight classes are going to move some impressive weight.

I can only think of one thing..

Calc I

 

[blaseblah]

Yes there are girls (most using PEDs let's be real) who can outlift similarly sized or larger MMA fighters. Girls like Stefi Cohen above. She pulls 500+ and weighs in the low 100s or something, probably 120s.

She is clearly on test/steroids imo, don't want to be the steroid police or accuse without proof but it's obvious, just like Claudia and Andrade are pretty obvious (and Cyborg of course, probably Holly).

Cyborg has probably been off the roids for a long time. She is not nearly as muscular as she used to be and does not look particularly strong compared to the girls she is fighting. Her technical striking and aggressiveness make all the difference.

 

[No Skill Gap]

@blaseblah Once you do steroids there is a muscle memory or something, in layman's terms, of your body producing that amount of force and having that much strength.

Also the effects are still there, she's got a man jaw, she probably has an enlarged clitoris, she has the muscle from before to an extent and strength. You could probably google the science behind it but there was a recent study showing that steroid use extends permanently to some extent.

I'm not sure I agree with you anyway. She's in Bellator now where they basically don't test. I don't think she looked small or anything in the UFC stint and Julia Budd is also a monster for a female fighter and probably on test/PEDs herself I bet. Idk, not saying her technique is bad, but I think she CLEARLY was on steroids, benefited from it, and probably still is using them now, perhaps at a lower dose or different type.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Cyborg has probably been off the roids for a long time. She is not nearly as muscular as she used to be and does not look particularly strong compared to the girls she is fighting. Her technical striking and aggressiveness make all the difference.

i suspect everyone is on, but nice view of Cyborg.
Maybe its because she was the jacked fighter back when they were trying to push pretty girls, back before real fighters came in. ie. she was the first real woman fighter on the american scene - but she gets way too much hate for being built, and for being ugly for that matter (GDR, Amanda... cmon!)
She isnt even a jacked wmma fighter by todays standards, and she isnt a particularly big hitter or particularly strong wrestler.
She is well-versed at everything, and can just bring a pace that doesnt stop. its her cardio tand heart that impress me most.

 

[blaseblah]

@blaseblah Once you do steroids there is a muscle memory or something, in layman's terms, of your body producing that amount of force and having that much strength.

Also the effects are still there, she's got a man jaw, she probably has an enlarged clitoris, she has the muscle from before to an extent and strength. You could probably google the science behind it but there was a recent study showing that steroid use extends permanently to some extent.

I'm not sure I agree with you anyway. She's in Bellator now where they basically don't test. I don't think she looked small or anything in the UFC stint and Julia Budd is also a monster for a female fighter and probably on test/PEDs herself I bet. Idk, not saying her technique is bad, but I think she CLEARLY was on steroids, benefited from it, and probably still is using them now, perhaps at a lower dose or different type.

Obviously she was on it at some point. She tested positive. But why would you assume she still is? She is noticeably smaller and doesn't have a strength advantage over the women she has been fighting.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

there is groove greasing. you do get stronger when doing, say, deadlift. it will work your grip and posterior chain, cause hypertrophy, strengthen connective tissue - but a high percentage of your numbers going up will be specific to getting good at that movement, you are right.

if you want to be stronger at wrestling, you should mostly wrestle.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

There are HS girls lifting more than him, but they are freak outliers. Like that girl who haunts @woloo's dreams.

how much does she weigh?

 

[No Skill Gap]

@blaseblah Because she's fighting in Bellator and they don't even test basically? So why not use?

She's 34 and has used in the past probably hurting her endocrine system...at least a bit. Idk, I just would bet money she's on something even right now. She might have looked "small" only because Budd is giant too and likely on something.

@Ultra O’Dia I'm not hating on her for being ugly, it's not that, It's more so that her jaw is likely the result of using HGH and test/steroids, and she very obviously used in the past at minimum. She deserves flak for that...the usage not her appearance.

I also disagree on her power, I think she's definitely one of the most powerful women strikers out there, who's more powerful with their hands? Basically only Nunes and that's likely due to technique being superior as well.

 

[belph]

What are we arguing that technique reigns supreme?

 

[JimRussel]

What are we arguing that technique reigns supreme?

I think we’re arguing about Mark Kerr and Jeff Monson being peak MMA.

 

[belph]

I think we’re arguing about Mark Kerr and Jeff Monson being peak MMA.

The heavyweight division peaked when Timmy shit himself.

 

[ConorFacts]

Furys 250kg deadlift was just for fun

i believe it was his first time lol