Strength is specific

Legendary

Legendary

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I love lifting and strength training as much as anyone, but I think there is this delusion about strength. Lots of people with impressive numbers have this delusion that they are "stronger" then someone because they have a bigger total. I guess this is true in a powerlifting/weightlifting/strongman/etc setting, but to say you are stronger then say GSP because you have a higher 1RM deadlift would be laughable. This also completely ignores variables like like body proportions, steroids, genetics. Yeah I guess you are stronger then him at a specific movement, but it doesn't mean anything beyond that.

There are guys like Amir Khan who probably struggles to DL x BW, but that doesn't mean he can't outbox most fighters. Tyson Fury deadlifted 550 at like 270 lbs, which isn't bad, but its not elite by any means. Just because Cailer Woolam can outlift him by almost 400 pounds on the deadlift at a lower bodyweight doesn't mean he would stand a chance against Fury in a fight.

I mean if you take two wrestlers in same weight class and one can deadlift 100lbs, and the other 400lbs, then yeah its going to a huge difference in strength. It matters, but its not always a deciding factor. I bet Robert Whittaker could lift heavier then Israel, but he still lost. Yoel can probably outlift Rob, but he lost to him twice( I know second fight was controversial).
 
I kind of agree with this.

I spent 3 months working solely on my ohp, front squat, weighted pullups and deadlifts, with pushups and BW rows as assists.

My thinking was that if I got stronger in these core lifts, my numbers for everything would go up as well or at least not stagnate.

I made good progress in these lifts but yesterday I tried doing BW dips for the first time in 3 months and the number of reps I could do had gone down very significantly. Where in the past I could probably crank out 30 no problem, I could barely make 10. I'm still reeling from the embarassment and confusion.
 
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MMA is not a strength sport put simply(most sports aren't). That being said an MMA fighter should want to be as strong as possible and the acquisition of that strength should not become a detriment to the primary sport.
 
Legendary said:
I love lifting and strength training as much as anyone, but I think there is this delusion about strength. Lots of people with impressive numbers have this delusion that they are "stronger" then someone because they have a bigger total. I guess this is true in a powerlifting/weightlifting/strongman/etc setting, but to say you are stronger then say GSP because you have a higher 1RM deadlift would be laughable. This also completely ignores variables like like body proportions, steroids, genetics. Yeah I guess you are stronger then him at a specific movement, but it doesn't mean anything beyond that.

There are guys like Amir Khan who probably struggles to DL x BW, but that doesn't mean he can't outbox most fighters. Tyson Fury deadlifted 550 at like 270 lbs, which isn't bad, but its not elite by any means. Just because Cailer Woolam can outlift him by almost 400 pounds on the deadlift at a lower bodyweight doesn't mean he would stand a chance against Fury in a fight.

I mean if you take two wrestlers in same weight class and one can deadlift 100lbs, and the other 400lbs, then yeah its going to a huge difference in strength. It matters, but its not always a deciding factor. I bet Robert Whittaker could lift heavier then Israel, but he still lost. Yoel can probably outlift Rob, but he lost to him twice( I know second fight was controversial).
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Uh no shit. But other skills being equal, whomever is stronger will likely win the fight.
 
Legendary said:
I love lifting and strength training as much as anyone, but I think there is this delusion about strength. Lots of people with impressive numbers have this delusion that they are "stronger" then someone because they have a bigger total. I guess this is true in a powerlifting/weightlifting/strongman/etc setting, but to say you are stronger then say GSP because you have a higher 1RM deadlift would be laughable. This also completely ignores variables like like body proportions, steroids, genetics. Yeah I guess you are stronger then him at a specific movement, but it doesn't mean anything beyond that.

There are guys like Amir Khan who probably struggles to DL x BW, but that doesn't mean he can't outbox most fighters. Tyson Fury deadlifted 550 at like 270 lbs, which isn't bad, but its not elite by any means. Just because Cailer Woolam can outlift him by almost 400 pounds on the deadlift at a lower bodyweight doesn't mean he would stand a chance against Fury in a fight.

I mean if you take two wrestlers in same weight class and one can deadlift 100lbs, and the other 400lbs, then yeah its going to a huge difference in strength. It matters, but its not always a deciding factor. I bet Robert Whittaker could lift heavier then Israel, but he still lost. Yoel can probably outlift Rob, but he lost to him twice( I know second fight was controversial).
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Has anyone ever disputed any of this?
 
It is funny how beasts like legendary get all ruffled about their heroes not being stronger than strong guys. I want to see someone start a thread complaining about good recreational swimmers and how that they couldn't go 3 rounds with Andre Ward or Jon Jones. On this forum I have never once seen someone, that isn't a complete idiot, try to say that because a person is good at a certain lift or strength sport, they would smoke a professional fighter.

I bet Robert Whittaker could lift heavier then Israel, but he still lost. What a fucking epic line that was, you live up to your name.

I also fucking hate it when people can't get then and than right.
 
You were kinda making sense with the gsp example. I know female powerlifters in high school that could probably outlift him yet he would ragdoll them in any contact sport. The boxing examples didn't make sense to me, obviously Khan and fury aren't strong it's their skill and speed or size for fury that allows them to dominate opponents. Has little to do with raw strength. Strength is very complex though, in various contact sports some of the guys who are the strongest aren't necessarily the strongest in the gym, they are just stronger at the movements in their sport. And it's not all to do with technique either.
 
Lol why are you bringing up boxing and mma? Since when are those primarily a strength sport? Are you also one of those guys that thinks everyone who lifts heavy is trying to be some tough guy who can fight?
 
JimRussel said:
You know high school aged females moving those numbers? Impressive.
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Yeah I went to Calhoun high school in texas. There many females even 130-150 range who were squatting and deadlifting that amount but the upper body strength to bench in the 300 range was pretty much just the big girls.
 
ImmigrantMentality said:
How much do you think he lifts? Imo he probably squats and deadlifts less than 400 and benches less than 300. That's not a knock on him I just think he focuses on other movements in his training
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Well I've seen video of him doing power snatches and jump squats with good weight. I highly doubt a high school female is stronger than him. But there's a clear difference in limit strength, relative strength, strength endurance, and power.
 
ImmigrantMentality said:
Yeah I went to Calhoun high school in texas. There many females even 130-150 range who were squatting and deadlifting that amount but the upper body strength to bench in the 300 range was pretty much just the big girls.
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There are HS girls lifting more than him, but they are freak outliers. Like that girl who haunts @woloo's dreams.
 
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