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Strength is a Skill?

KnightTemplar

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Since returning to training, almost all my pressing has been done with a neutral grip. I had surgery on my left shoulder, and full ROM with a pronated grip just fucks my shoulders.

Using a neutral, close grip on the Football Bar is much safer, but the strength gains come more slowly, since one cannot exert as much force as one can with a wider, pronated grip.

Or so I thought.

Today, after doing my main workout with the Football Bar, I decided to play around with the EliteFTS Shoulder Saver Pad. I put it on the standard Olympic Bar. I expected it to feel much easier, and to put up heavier weight. While I was able to bench slightly more due to the reduced ROM, the wider, pronated grip actually felt weaker and more awkward.

The only thing I can attribute this to is that I'm simply not used to exerting force through this vector(?)of movement. Thus, strength really is a skill in itself: if you are used to training in a single movement pattern, the strength you develop will not automatically transfer to a different movement pattern. Even if the difference is merely hand placement/grip width.

I think I'll need to make SS Pad Bench a regular part of my training, to offset any imbalances.
 
Since returning to training, almost all my pressing has been done with a neutral grip. I had surgery on my left shoulder, and full ROM with a pronated grip just fucks my shoulders.

Using a neutral, close grip on the Football Bar is much safer, but the strength gains come more slowly, since one cannot exert as much force as one can with a wider, pronated grip.

Or so I thought.

Today, after doing my main workout with the Football Bar, I decided to play around with the EliteFTS Shoulder Saver Pad. I put it on the standard Olympic Bar. I expected it to feel much easier, and to put up heavier weight. While I was able to bench slightly more due to the reduced ROM, the wider, pronated grip actually felt weaker and more awkward.

The only thing I can attribute this to is that I'm simply not used to exerting force through this vector(?)of movement. Thus, strength really is a skill in itself: if you are used to training in a single movement pattern, the strength you develop will not automatically transfer to a different movement pattern. Even if the difference is merely hand placement/grip width.

I think I'll need to make SS Pad Bench a regular part of my training, to offset any imbalances.
Lifting is a skill
Strength is not a skill
 
Lifting is a skill
Strength is not a skill

I see your point.

I still contend that I need to train different lifting patterns for maximum efficiency. I thought the strength I developed from close grip Football Bar bench would automatically transfer to similar lifts. I was wrong.
 
I see your point.

I still contend that I need to train different lifting patterns for maximum efficiency. I thought the strength I developed from close grip Football Bar bench would automatically transfer to similar lifts. I was wrong.
Maximum efficiency for what?
Your body will adapt to the stimulus you provide. Select the movements that matter to you and get stronger at them.
 
best-life-conan.gif
 
Someone’s strength mostly relies on genetics but one can train and develop a certain strength pattern and make it skill / technique and become stronger anyway . The more naturally strong one is the more they have to work with . I know guys that weighed 260 and stood 6”3 and never hit a gym in their life that could move weight truck ( a thing to haul weights around if it needed to off set a piece of scenery etc ) on a set filled with studio weights that probably amounted to 4 hundred pounds by hand , in fact that guy was the second best arm wrestler in the building until he left so he had a lot of natural power .

This is just one example as someone who genetically was very strong where strength isn’t a skill bc he didn’t compete or work out fir any specific thing . If you take a boxer and over the years he is lifting , punching,training , learning it then can be a skill bc one would get stronger based on those compound movements so the answer is probably both strength is a skill varied to the individual but also can be genetic .
 
so How about - Strength is an attribute that can be better demonstrated the more skillfulness of the movement is improved. ?

Doug Hepburn was an original strongest man back in the day I just watched this last night and basically says that and what I was posting. He wasn’t genetically gifted and had to work at it harder then others he wouldn’t be near the strongest today in most lifts bc times changed and basically relied on 10 thousand calories a day doing just limited lifts all the time he was shortly surpassed even in his own era but I do apply some of the training methods he does I rest a bit more then 2 minutes on heavy arm days but I do limits reps / heavy set things .


He mentions strength being a skill
 
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Yes lifting or any specific non common/everyday movement pattern involves first training your body/CNS to perform it. It is why your first strength improvements will be achieved through technique improvements and CNS adaptations.
 
Since returning to training, almost all my pressing has been done with a neutral grip. I had surgery on my left shoulder, and full ROM with a pronated grip just fucks my shoulders.

Using a neutral, close grip on the Football Bar is much safer, but the strength gains come more slowly, since one cannot exert as much force as one can with a wider, pronated grip.

Or so I thought.

Today, after doing my main workout with the Football Bar, I decided to play around with the EliteFTS Shoulder Saver Pad. I put it on the standard Olympic Bar. I expected it to feel much easier, and to put up heavier weight. While I was able to bench slightly more due to the reduced ROM, the wider, pronated grip actually felt weaker and more awkward.

The only thing I can attribute this to is that I'm simply not used to exerting force through this vector(?)of movement. Thus, strength really is a skill in itself: if you are used to training in a single movement pattern, the strength you develop will not automatically transfer to a different movement pattern. Even if the difference is merely hand placement/grip width.

I think I'll need to make SS Pad Bench a regular part of my training, to offset any imbalances.
100%
You just a bit of practice in that range. Your body has been used to a specific activity for an extended period and now you have just that movement.

You will still be increasing strength and with a little practice it will carry straight across.

The strength is there, you just need some practice at the lift to work out how to apply that strength.
 
I would handicap it for the naive random strategy at 44% genetics, 44% epigenetics, 2% training skill.

What mostly matters is the non-linear response of an athletes genetics * the environment they were raised.

What an athlete actually does for training barely matters unless the difference between a gold and silver is 1-2%.

For whatever reason, the average person just does not like that idea.

Even though the average person knows this empirically from elementary school gym class.
 
100%
You just a bit of practice in that range. Your body has been used to a specific activity for an extended period and now you have just that movement.

You will still be increasing strength and with a little practice it will carry straight across.

The strength is there, you just need some practice at the lift to work out how to apply that strength.

Yeah, I did 2 Board Press again today and it felt stronger and less awkward than last time.
 
so How about - Strength is an attribute that can be better demonstrated the more skillfulness of the movement is improved. ?

Doug Hepburn was an original strongest man back in the day I just watched this last night and basically says that and what I was posting. He wasn’t genetically gifted and had to work at it harder then others he wouldn’t be near the strongest today in most lifts bc times changed and basically relied on 10 thousand calories a day doing just limited lifts all the time he was shortly surpassed even in his own era but I do apply some of the training methods he does I rest a bit more then 2 minutes on heavy arm days but I do limits reps / heavy set things .


He mentions strength being a skill

Hepburn is one of a few people who actually told me that, those exact words or very close, not any original thought of mine. I didn't catch where he said anything about strength being a skill in that vid though.

Personally I generally have a hard time when elite athletes say they are not genetically gifted, that makes no sense. You are one of the very best in the world at something but better than average genetics didn't play a part? Response to stimulus needs to be considered in the equation doesn't it? And that is influenced by genetics.
Two guys have the same size skeleton and live a sedentary life for 20 years. One has 16 inch arms and the other has 12. Both of them get the bug and start lifting and eating appropriately. Effort, consistency etc and all the factors that can be are equal. At 23 mr 16 now has 17 inch arms and mr 12 now has 18 inch arms. Which one had better genetics?
Clearly either has an arguement. One was naturally bigger but had a lesser response to the stimulus, the other was naturally smaller and had a greater response. You can substitute any performance metric like power or speed etc
 
Yes lifting or any specific non common/everyday movement pattern involves first training your body/CNS to perform it. It is why your first strength improvements will be achieved through technique improvements and CNS adaptations.
Good point, that would always be an underling factor for every conscious movement right from day one. The potential would/could always be there but you can or need to acquire the skill to express it for it to be realized
 
Yeah, I did 2 Board Press again today and it felt stronger and less awkward than last time.
Same thing happen whenever I have a new exercise in my program.

The first session or two is adapting to the exercise before I hit a good number with it. Each time I revisit it, it feels awkward, but I still usually beat my previous best within a session or two.

Some of it is skill practice, some of it is strength increases. Especially with injuries. I had to reteach my triceps to actually fire and couldn't until I used a variety of exercises to overload it.

The main thing is you are progressing, which is a win.
 
I see your point.

I still contend that I need to train different lifting patterns for maximum efficiency. I thought the strength I developed from close grip Football Bar bench would automatically transfer to similar lifts. I was wrong.
I definitely think there's something to the whole "strength is a skill" thing. I have felt really good about certain calisthenics movements that I was working on recently, but I noticed that in some ways, other movements that involved particular engagements and certain movements felt a bit off returning to them. It wasn't as if just being good at certain "advanced" moves made everything suddenly "advanced". I think a rising tide lifts all ships in working out to some degree and SOMETIMES advancing in one area will indirectly lead you to advance in other related things, but its not always the case and I definitely think there are often skills, techniques, areas of timing that are relevant to specific movements.

When it comes to bodyweight, for example, which is what most of my workouts revolve around recently, so much of it is knowing which muscle groups to tap into for which movement. They might all be strong enough, but if you don't know to or aren't used to activating them in tandem with certain other muscles, then you won't be able to do the movement/hold. Positioning is also relevant.
 
Hepburn is one of a few people who actually told me that, those exact words or very close, not any original thought of mine. I didn't catch where he said anything about strength being a skill in that vid though.

Personally I generally have a hard time when elite athletes say they are not genetically gifted, that makes no sense. You are one of the very best in the world at something but better than average genetics didn't play a part? Response to stimulus needs to be considered in the equation doesn't it? And that is influenced by genetics.
Two guys have the same size skeleton and live a sedentary life for 20 years. One has 16 inch arms and the other has 12. Both of them get the bug and start lifting and eating appropriately. Effort, consistency etc and all the factors that can be are equal. At 23 mr 16 now has 17 inch arms and mr 12 now has 18 inch arms. Which one had better genetics?
Clearly either has an arguement. One was naturally bigger but had a lesser response to the stimulus, the other was naturally smaller and had a greater response. You can substitute any performance metric like power or speed etc

The reason some people don't want to acknowledge their genetic advantages is because they want to believe it was their hard work that got them where they are. It is similar to people who downplay AAS in their ability to achieve their size, strength and performance goals.

Whether hard work can overcome genetic disadvantages depends on many factors. How big is the athletic gap?

AAS can work wonders but no amount of steroids will ever achieve what someone with excellent genetics could achieve.

Some people have more fast or slow twitch fibers. Some people have perfect limb and torso size for certain exercises/sports. Some people have advantages with skill acquisition and reaction times(innate neutral advantages--there's a video of a Nascar driver demonstrating his elite reaction time). Some people have better muscle insertions. etc.
 
Strength is a skill. Yes. However, there is a spectrum in strength when it comes to how much of it is specific and how much of it is general.

The most important thing to realize, though, is that when it comes to building a more generalized form of strength, there is such a thing as an optimal and suboptimal way to do it.

With a more specific type of strength, anything goes as long as you don't hurt yourself and the training closely imitates the actual movement in the sport. But with overall body strength? I mean, front squats are better than sissy squats, 5 sets of 5 reps are better than 3 sets of 12, doing the exercises with good form matters, and proper weekly training split matters...
 
so How about - Strength is an attribute that can be better demonstrated the more skillfulness of the movement is improved. ?

Doug Hepburn was an original strongest man back in the day I just watched this last night and basically says that and what I was posting. He wasn’t genetically gifted and had to work at it harder then others he wouldn’t be near the strongest today in most lifts bc times changed and basically relied on 10 thousand calories a day doing just limited lifts all the time he was shortly surpassed even in his own era but I do apply some of the training methods he does I rest a bit more then 2 minutes on heavy arm days but I do limits reps / heavy set things .


He mentions strength being a skill


I do the Hepburn Method. It kicks ass. Its a safe and surefire way to build strength.
 
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