Straight Punches Technique

[Adnan Adil]

Hi, guys! I've started my martial arts journey with karate and I was taught to punch... in karate style. Still I can't tell that I always land with the first two knuckles. Recently I've noticed that me and most people I train with now (with close to my background) punch in a slightly different way from the boxers. I find that our straight shots are coming from wider angle, while boxers hold their hands right in front of them and fire absolutely straight ahead. Punching like this is very hard for me to land with the index and middle finger knuckles. If I use vertical fist punches, I am able to land with the desired knuckles easier, but I prefer to use horizontal fist punches. Any tips to land with the first two knuckles? Is better to tilt more the wrist or to move the punching arm a little more outside from the intended target?

 

[DoctorTaco]

Hi, guys! I've started my martial arts journey with karate and I was taught to punch... in karate style. Still I can't tell that I always land with the first two knuckles. Recently I've noticed that me and most people I train with now (with close to my background) punch in a slightly different way from the boxers. I find that our straight shots are coming from wider angle, while boxers hold their hands right in front of them and fire absolutely straight ahead. Punching like this is very hard for me to land with the index and middle finger knuckles. If I use vertical fist punches, I am able to land with the desired knuckles easier, but I prefer to use horizontal fist punches. Any tips to land with the first two knuckles? Is better to tilt more the wrist or to move the punching arm a little more outside from the intended target?

throw it vertically and then turn it over at the absolute last minute

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

throw it vertically and then turn it over at the absolute last minute

Specifically, turn the punch over by internal rotation of the shoulder, rather than just the forearm. The inside hinge of your elbow should be pointing up to the ceiling almost the entire punch, and then twist to face in towards your centre line just before impact.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Specifically, turn the punch over by internal rotation of the shoulder, rather than just the forearm. The inside hinge of your elbow should be pointing up to the ceiling almost the entire punch, and then twist to face in towards your centre line just before impact.

this is a really subtle and important detail. Never heard it explained this way but I like it

 

[Adnan Adil]

Specifically, turn the punch over by internal rotation of the shoulder, rather than just the forearm. The inside hinge of your elbow should be pointing up to the ceiling almost the entire punch, and then twist to face in towards your centre line just before impact.

I think that I understand you, but there are two problems executing the punch like this. First- the shoulder rotation makes some recoil like effect and the punch is less accurate. And second- the elbow is pointing to much in outward direction, which is generally bad according to almost everybody. How do you solve these problems?

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

I think that I understand you, but there are two problems executing the punch like this. First- the shoulder rotation makes some recoil like effect and the punch is less accurate. And second- the elbow is pointing to much in outward direction, which is generally bad according to almost everybody. How do you solve these problems?

As long as the elbow is pointing down for the majority of the movement, you won't be "chicken winging" your elbow during the punch. The recoil effect gives you some extra snap, which makes the punch a little bit more powerful - it's understandable that you might be a bit less accurate if you've never punched that way before, but it's worth learning to do.

Personally, I find that not rotating the shoulder like this puts excessive strain on my elbows when I punch - the snapping shoulder rotation at the end fixes that issue for me.

 

[Adnan Adil]

As long as the elbow is pointing down for the majority of the movement, you won't be "chicken winging" your elbow during the punch. The recoil effect gives you some extra snap, which makes the punch a little bit more powerful - it's understandable that you might be a bit less accurate if you've never punched that way before, but it's worth learning to do.

Personally, I find that not rotating the shoulder like this puts excessive strain on my elbows when I punch - the snapping shoulder rotation at the end fixes that issue for me.

Yes, when I throw a lot of punches, especially in shadowboxing sessions, sometimes my elbows feel bad afterwards. I would try that type of punching for prolonged period to get used to it.
Personally now I train with open hand strikes to the head, but in self defense situation I believe, that my fists might come in play, because of the instincts. Also, you can not spar always with open hands.
Isn't that shoulder pop possible with vertical fist punch? Or it should be al least at 45 degree angle like in Krav Maga?

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

I've never been able to get the pop on the end of the punch without some level of rotation from the shoulder joint. That doesn't mean that it's not possible, just that I personally can't.

As to the angle - the fist being parallel with the floor is what I usually see in boxers, but the Soviet system and the Cuban system which is descended from it go even further, rotating the fist so that the thumb joint is pointing down towards the ground.

 

[Adnan Adil]

I've never been able to get the pop on the end of the punch without some level of rotation from the shoulder joint. That doesn't mean that it's not possible, just that I personally can't.

As to the angle - the fist being parallel with the floor is what I usually see in boxers, but the Soviet system and the Cuban system which is descended from it go even further, rotating the fist so that the thumb joint is pointing down towards the ground.

Yep, I have seen plenty of boxers from these schools that punch with elbow in the air. Isn't this bad for the power or in the end of the motion is not a bad thing the elbow to flare? I am thinking of the push ups and bench press.

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

A punch isn't a pushing motion; it's more akin to a throwing motion. At the end of a punch the rotation of the shoulder joint adds a bit of pop and torque to the movement, kind of like putting spin on a baseball.

 

[Adnan Adil]

A punch isn't a pushing motion; it's more akin to a throwing motion. At the end of a punch the rotation of the shoulder joint adds a bit of pop and torque to the movement, kind of like putting spin on a baseball.

Sounds right. Plus keeping the elbow down, requires rotation from the forearm. Rotation from the shoulder keeps the wrist in more stable position (the main pro of the vertical fist punches according to their fans).

 

[Adnan Adil]

I've never been able to get the pop on the end of the punch without some level of rotation from the shoulder joint. That doesn't mean that it's not possible, just that I personally can't.

As to the angle - the fist being parallel with the floor is what I usually see in boxers, but the Soviet system and the Cuban system which is descended from it go even further, rotating the fist so that the thumb joint is pointing down towards the ground.

Proof to your statement:

 

[Minnja]

Glad this thread was made. Have a bit of a different question/issue, I've noticed when I throw my cross I am doing a decent job of driving/pivoting off the rear leg but I noticed my lead leg sometimes straightens out.... never really noticed I do this but I recorded myself and a good number of times I am noticing it straightens out either pretty much straight up and down or sometimes even slightly like pushing away from me (foot in front of leg but leg straightened out if that makes sense). I also notice sometimes my front foot is like not planted despite me pivoting the rear, I suppose an off-balancing issue?

Any idea why I could possibly be doing this? Is it because I'm over-emphasizing maybe the pivot on the rear leg and forgetting to drive into the front? idk how else to explain it i can DM a video if anyone is interested in helping

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

Glad this thread was made. Have a bit of a different question/issue, I've noticed when I throw my cross I am doing a decent job of driving/pivoting off the rear leg but I noticed my lead leg sometimes straightens out.... never really noticed I do this but I recorded myself and a good number of times I am noticing it straightens out either pretty much straight up and down or sometimes even slightly like pushing away from me (foot in front of leg but leg straightened out if that makes sense). I also notice sometimes my front foot is like not planted despite me pivoting the rear, I suppose an off-balancing issue?

Any idea why I could possibly be doing this? Is it because I'm over-emphasizing maybe the pivot on the rear leg and forgetting to drive into the front? idk how else to explain it i can DM a video if anyone is interested in helping

So this is something I've looked at and while I can't claim full expertise here, I think some degree of knee extension for the lead leg on a cross is optimal. As I said earlier, a punch is most akin to a throwing motion, and I've looked into the various forms of different throwing disciplines - discus, javelin, shot putt, baseball pitching and batting - and all of them involve a firm "block" leg to rotate around and express the force generated in the movement. In baseball specifically, there've been studies which indicate that knee extension is correlated with a higher velocity.

I've looked at footage of boxers well known for their power and I've noticed that for a number of them have some level of lead leg extension when they throw their cross. Cherry picked example, but the linked video/time is illustrative:



My advice would be that as long as you're transferring your weight onto the front foot properly and not letting your head drift too far forward (I know that Sinister has said that the ideal is no farther forward than the ball of the front foot) not too worry about some level of lead leg extension, at least in a boxing context. If you're participating in an art with kicking, it might be something to try to avoid or at least limit because a kick to an extended lead leg won't look pretty.

 

[StopDucking]

Glad this thread was made. Have a bit of a different question/issue, I've noticed when I throw my cross I am doing a decent job of driving/pivoting off the rear leg but I noticed my lead leg sometimes straightens out.... never really noticed I do this but I recorded myself and a good number of times I am noticing it straightens out either pretty much straight up and down or sometimes even slightly like pushing away from me (foot in front of leg but leg straightened out if that makes sense). I also notice sometimes my front foot is like not planted despite me pivoting the rear, I suppose an off-balancing issue?

Any idea why I could possibly be doing this? Is it because I'm over-emphasizing maybe the pivot on the rear leg and forgetting to drive into the front? idk how else to explain it i can DM a video if anyone is interested in helping

The straightening of the lead leg is not uncommon by Soviet standards. Not sure why your lead foot isn't planted on the ground though. I'd have to take a closer look at it to be sure.

 

[Minnja]

So this is something I've looked at and while I can't claim full expertise here, I think some degree of knee extension for the lead leg on a cross is optimal. As I said earlier, a punch is most akin to a throwing motion, and I've looked into the various forms of different throwing disciplines - discus, javelin, shot putt, baseball pitching and batting - and all of them involve a firm "block" leg to rotate around and express the force generated in the movement. In baseball specifically, there've been studies which indicate that knee extension is correlated with a higher velocity.

I've looked at footage of boxers well known for their power and I've noticed that for a number of them have some level of lead leg extension when they throw their cross. Cherry picked example, but the linked video/time is illustrative:



My advice would be that as long as you're transferring your weight onto the front foot properly and not letting your head drift too far forward (I know that Sinister has said that the ideal is no farther forward than the ball of the front foot) not too worry about some level of lead leg extension, at least in a boxing context. If you're participating in an art with kicking, it might be something to try to avoid or at least limit because a kick to an extended lead leg won't look pretty.

The straightening of the lead leg is not uncommon by Soviet standards. Not sure why your lead foot isn't planted on the ground though. I'd have to take a closer look at it to be sure.

Thanks for the input guys. Something I am working on is sitting down more on my punches, particularly with the cross and also with the cross to try to move my head more off-center so when I noticed the straight leg I was wondering maybe if that's one of the things that's causing my lack of head movement during and after the cross.

Also, StopDucking, what I mean by isn't planted is that sometimes during the end of the punch I'll be on either the ball or heel of my lead leg, it's a little random, and maybe also contributing to sometimes the straightening of the leg? I suppose my issue really is the consistency as in my head I wanted to have a slight bend in the lead leg but about half the time or so the leg was more straight. The goal again was to work on sitting down on the punch more.

 

[StopDucking]

Thanks for the input guys. Something I am working on is sitting down more on my punches, particularly with the cross and also with the cross to try to move my head more off-center so when I noticed the straight leg I was wondering maybe if that's one of the things that's causing my lack of head movement during and after the cross.

Also, StopDucking, what I mean by isn't planted is that sometimes during the end of the punch I'll be on either the ball or heel of my lead leg, it's a little random, and maybe also contributing to sometimes the straightening of the leg? I suppose my issue really is the consistency as in my head I wanted to have a slight bend in the lead leg but about half the time or so the leg was more straight. The goal again was to work on sitting down on the punch more.

I get it but describing the problem to me a second time is not gonna help me find the cause of it.

I need new information. The position of your other body parts would be a good start.

When you throw a 1-2, does it look like this?

 

[Adnan Adil]

A punch isn't a pushing motion; it's more akin to a throwing motion. At the end of a punch the rotation of the shoulder joint adds a bit of pop and torque to the movement, kind of like putting spin on a baseball.

After few sessions with your method I've started to rotate the fists from the shoulders I think. I think that they are a little bit more powerful and there is more snap. The problem is that I have started to overextend my elbows. Any tips?

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

After few sessions with your method I've started to rotate the fists from the shoulders I think. I think that they are a little bit more powerful and there is more snap. The problem is that I have started to overextend my elbows. Any tips?

I've never run into that issue much - all I can suggest is focus on getting the snap from the shoulder rotation while still leaving a slight bend in the elbow, especially while shadow boxing.

 

[Adnan Adil]

I've never run into that issue much - all I can suggest is focus on getting the snap from the shoulder rotation while still leaving a slight bend in the elbow, especially while shadow boxing.

Yep, like something not so new I have trouble to be strict with all the details of the technique. I am going to try to keep my elbows slightly bent.