Stipe Miocic is two fights away from GOAT status in 2021

[pankrat]

Its a combination of both for me, a good performance from Silva but also a bad performance from Forrest, some of those combos he's throwing are Todd Duffee level bad. Of course you could say Anderson earnt that bad performance, he built up his legend to such a degree than guys liek Okami and Forrest folded mentally before they stepped in the cage.

How much you are taking away from Silva's credit because of the Xanax thing? To be honest, I think not even Forrest himself shares that take on the matter...or on the outcome of a potential rematch.

BTW, we have seen plenty of capable hitters looking foolish vs Silva, let alone wrestlers. Even striking specialists at the top of their game as Hall and Izzy looked puzzled at some point - and react sloppier than usually do - by geriatric Silva's movement/timing

Honestly I think its a little bit the early signs of decline but also that Nate was always a bit flakey, as with Overeem or Hendo(albeit on a lower level) he's one of those guys who'se status comes from his longevity moreso than ever having been that dominant.

One thing to consider as well if were talking quality of wins is that its not the same as a fighters overall status. Its possible for one fighter to be ranked more highly than another in terms of his achievements BUT to never have been as good as that fighters best spell. Ultimately you only beat the fighter you face on the night you don't inherit his entire career.

Guys like Arlovski, Sergei and Aleks didnt really have very long primes but that doesnt change that they were very dangerous fighters during those primes and very good wins.

I agree that quality not always refflects on standings. A good, close fight that results in a flip coin decission could refflect greatly in one of the fighter's standing whith no effect at all on his opponent's.

That's why when assessing Okami, I didnt refer to his standing in the division (which certainly validates him as "top quality" for many years) but to his actual performances vs widely considered "top quality" opponents at the top of their game

Honestly I think its a little bit the early signs of decline but also that Nate was always a bit flakey, .

Can you be more specific? What sign do you take as evidence of declining in Marquardt's fighting ability? By 2010 was - and looked - in his athletic prime or barely removed from it. Also PEDs. He actually overpowered the remarkably strong Okami in the fight and won the TD battle.

By that time he was regular sparring partner of GSP, had definitely picked up wrestling chops since his early days in UFC - or since he fought Silva - and also polished his boxing and head movement.

In his actual performances, looked more confident and powerful than ever actually riding the best finishing streak in his career over top competition.
There was no Xanax, injury of any kind, an actually was fresh from finishing Palhares in one minut without taking any damage.

To be honest, it looks as another case in which credit is taken away from the winner...in a logic that doesnt match the standards set.
It doesnt matter what version of Marquardt showed up - and particularly the one who fought Silva - who would not have problems dealing with Okam's range management, cautius approach, jab and TD threat. When he ended in the ground on top - and did so more than Yushin - Okami showed to be also the superior ground fighter.
Let's get credit where it's due. And as I said it all depends on where we set the standards for "top quality" opponent.

Nate was always a bit flakey, as with Overeem or Hendo(albeit on a lower level) he's one of those guys who'se status comes from his longevity moreso than ever having been that dominant.

Guys like Arlovski, Sergei and Aleks didnt really have very long primes but that doesnt change that they were very dangerous fighters during those primes and very good wins.

Don't you agree fighting for longer in the elite is itself a cause of being "flakey" or having a patchy record?
I mean we've seen fighters like Mirko and Sergei, with rather short "primes" have also flakes on their record.

 

[MirRocksFedor]

Stipe , and not to his fault, has beat past their prime people for most of his career.
Sadly that’s the HW division and how it’s been for years.

his win over Francis was great. But let’s be honest , Francis was a noob to MMA.

I think Francis wins within 2 rounds in the rematch.

Why are you throwing so much Shade, Stipe destroyed Werdum, and showed a great game plan in destroying DC the 2nd time.

Grow up and learn to enjoy great MMA fighters while you can.

 

[Deleted member 581023]

I wouldnt say Stipe has really shown an amazingly good chin, I mean its certainly not bad but the main way he's managed to cover for defencive weakness for me is by targeting opponents weaknesses, something I think he'd have found harder to do fighting in an earlier era of HW.

He hasn’t shown an amazingly good chin? Stipe has every reason to claim he has the best chin in the UFC right now. I can’t name a single fighter in any division during any era who can eat few clean shots from Francis Ngannou like Stipe did. Maybe Jon Jones can, he does have one of the best chins.

 

[moreorless87]

He hasn’t shown an amazingly good chin? Stipe has every reason to claim he has the best chin in the UFC right now. I can’t name a single fighter in any division during any era who can eat few clean shots from Francis Ngannou like Stipe did. Maybe Jon Jones can, he does have one of the best chins.

He's been stopped by Struve/Cormier and dropped by Overeem/JDS via a single punch. Again I wouldn't say its a bad chin at all but I don't see evidence its a Hunt/Nelson/Fujita level chin or indeed even as good as JDS's was earlier in his career.

Against Cormier in the rematches I think you could see Stipe pretty much admit he was outgunned their when it came to aggressive exchanges, instead he shifted to landing from range and benefitting from Cormiers inferior cardio.

 

[Deleted member 581023]

He's been stopped by Struve/Cormier and dropped by Overeem/JDS via a single punch. Again I wouldn't say its a bad chin at all but I don't see evidence its a Hunt/Nelson/Fujita level chin or indeed even as good as JDS's was earlier in his career.

Against Cormier in the rematches I think you could see Stipe pretty much admit he was outgunned their when it came to aggressive exchanges, instead he shifted to landing from range and benefitting from Cormiers inferior cardio.

Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to use Stipe’s wins against him? Anyways, I wouldn’t say Stipe was outgunned in aggressive exchanges. Daniel Cormier is just an incredible dirty boxer who hits you quick in the clinch. Stipe seemed like the better boxer, who outboxed Cormier in their first fight before getting knocked out. It’s not fancy but he has a relentless one two punch combo that is effective. He was very timid in his rematch and a little less in the third.

 

[WhosTheBoss]

Why are you throwing so much Shade, Stipe destroyed Werdum, and showed a great game plan in destroying DC the 2nd time.

Grow up and learn to enjoy great MMA fighters while you can.

.... I do enjoy. I’m just a realist. He’s beaten over the hill fighters, but that’s what was avalaible. The heavyweight division is always behind everyone else in terms of talent and youth.

 

[Naoya#1]

Stipe was basebal player

That alone should be enough for GOATstatus

 

[MirRocksFedor]

.... I do enjoy. I’m just a realist. He’s beaten over the hill fighters, but that’s what was avalaible. The heavyweight division is always behind everyone else in terms of talent and youth.

The guy he beat went onto beat many others... so they're not over the hill fuck boy. Grow up.

 

[pankrat]

.... I do enjoy. I’m just a realist. He’s beaten over the hill fighters, but that’s what was avalaible. The heavyweight division is always behind everyone else in terms of talent and youth.

There is nothing more realist than the fact that the whole roster is literally avoiding these fighters in the absolute division.
Including the widely regarded best p4p fighter in the word this whole decade, who happens to be a LHW, and a very big one.
How is that nobody has taken the spot of those "over the hill fighters" you are downplaying, to challenge for the most coveted belt in prizefighting, Mr Realist?

 

[WhosTheBoss]

The guy he beat went onto beat many others... so they're not over the hill fuck boy. Grow up.

Grow up? Who the fuck are you.
SMD.

I’m 32 and I like stipe but I can honestly assess fighters , unlike you.

 

[moreorless87]

Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to use Stipe’s wins against him? Anyways, I wouldn’t say Stipe was outgunned in aggressive exchanges. Daniel Cormier is just an incredible dirty boxer who hits you quick in the clinch. Stipe seemed like the better boxer, who outboxed Cormier in their first fight before getting knocked out. It’s not fancy but he has a relentless one two punch combo that is effective. He was very timid in his rematch and a little less in the third.

Those are fights were he was hurt showing his chin wasnt unbreakable, I think its pretty fare to use them.

Against Overeem espeically I think its a good demostration of what I was saying that he's hittable but then exploits an opponents weakness to get around it, in this case Allstairs poor defense when up against the cage.

If Stipe was around in the mid 00's I think he'd have faced more situations were it wasnt as easy to target someones weakness like that.

 

[MirRocksFedor]

Grow up? Who the fuck are you.
SMD.

I’m 32 and I like stipe but I can honestly assess fighters , unlike you.

you're a loser who needs to run fighters down, he's the champion and defeated men in their primes and men who have beaten him, take your high horse attitude and get outta here kid.

 

[WhosTheBoss]

you're a loser who needs to run fighters down, he's the champion and defeated men in their primes and men who have beaten him, take your high horse attitude and get outta here kid.

Good one.

 

[Deleted member 510653]

This is still going goddamn

 

[MirRocksFedor]

Good one.

Thanks man, I'm just not a fan of fighter bashing.