Stephan Kesting, this is plain wrong (three ways to escape any submission app)

[Nnedd]

I don't think this thread turned out like TS expected.

 

[Balto]

Honest ad style:

Here's how to escape some submissions. Not any submissions, not even most submissions. Not even that many submissions honestly. Mostly submissions done poorly by people worse than you, and since you're buying an instructional app in the first place, that's probably not a whole lot of people. So really we're talking about a couple people here. And you probably beat them anyway.

The concepts are sound, and sometimes you will even see someone like Roger using them to escape. But you are way worse than Roger and always will be, so don't kid yourself about getting the same results. You suck, and you're going to still suck even after buying my app.

Now give me $3.99 right now.

 

[platfox]

Lol @ Balto's post

 

[Balto]

Lol @ Balto's post

What, you don't want to buy anymore????

With such honest advertising, it should sell like hotcakes.

 

[Nnedd]

lmfao

 

[sb413197]

Honest ad style:

Here's how to escape some submissions. Not any submissions, not even most submissions. Not even that many submissions honestly. Mostly submissions done poorly by people worse than you, and since you're buying an instructional app in the first place, that's probably not a whole lot of people. So really we're talking about a couple people here. And you probably beat them anyway.

The concepts are sound, and sometimes you will even see someone like Roger using them to escape. But you are way worse than Roger and always will be, so don't kid yourself about getting the same results. You suck, and you're going to still suck even after buying my app.

Now give me $3.99 right now.

I'm inspired

 

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

I think Rage is just misreading the title. It doesn't mean "any submission" as in "all the possible instances of being in a sub", but any submission technique I.e. " these principles apply to triangles, heel hooks or Mongolians death locks"

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. At worst, it's a headline that is prone to misinterpretation.

As for the debate about whether it's possible to escape a fully locked RNC: Of course it's possible!

Submissions are positions that use leverage to magnify your mechanical strength. But they don't make you infinitely strong. Sometimes the leverage provided by the submission is inadequate to overcome differences in attributes like size, strength, or conditioning.

I have rolled with one GIANT beast of a man who could peel off my locked in RNC when he was fresh. I had to be really careful to hide my hands, because if he got any grip, his strength would take over. And I'm a 200 lbs man. Imagine how easily he could do that to a 100 lbs woman.

That's an extreme example. But the better your technique at "last ditch" escapes, the better your chances of exploiting your attributes to escape locked in subs a very, very minute percentage of the time.

 

[deadlizard]

Honest ad style:

Here's how to escape some submissions. Not any submissions, not even most submissions. Not even that many submissions honestly. Mostly submissions done poorly by people worse than you, and since you're buying an instructional app in the first place, that's probably not a whole lot of people. So really we're talking about a couple people here. And you probably beat them anyway.

The concepts are sound, and sometimes you will even see someone like Roger using them to escape. But you are way worse than Roger and always will be, so don't kid yourself about getting the same results. You suck, and you're going to still suck even after buying my app.

Now give me $3.99 right now.

Just..... take my money bro!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I think Rage is just misreading the title. It doesn't mean "any submission" as in "all the possible instances of being in a sub", but any submission technique I.e. " these principles apply to triangles, heel hooks or Mongolians death locks"

thats what I think when I read ANY submission, but thast problably the language barrier...

 

[platfox]

What, you don't want to buy anymore????

With such honest advertising, it should sell like hotcakes.

You should write "the honest ad" for bringing in new customers too for the "why do so many gyms do this" thread.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It's nothing like LI.

In fact I'd go as far as saying that Kesting's marketing is just about the best internet marketing for martial arts I've seen. Let's suppose he wrote that article purely as a link to his app - it's still genuinely useful and interesting content. And the offer to look at his app doesn't dominate. You don't need to sign up to endless emails. There's no "Click to say YES to secret escapes that will DOMINATE the opposition" idiocy. If you want to compare Dan ***ella's tactics with LI then I'm with you. I hate that crap too.

Seems to me it's a very fair deal where you get good content and he gets the opportunity to offer you some goods, and no actual pressure to buy anything. And if you do choose to d/l the app it's like $3.99. I have bought it and it's well worth it. Good, clear instruction, well laid out, great price.

I think you might even be the only person on the planet who believes they were misled by the title into thinking his app would give you the ability to escape an RNC fully locked in by a pro.

holy shit, what part of IM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE TITLE of this particular product you dont understand? you keep trying to drag me into bashing stephan, im not doing it, I didnt do it, and I wont do it. I dont think he uses Lloys type of mkt, EXCEPT FOR THIS TITLE OF HIS BLOG.

Is because stephan has never got into llyods type of mkt that I was suriprised and why I created this post.. if I had that impression on him, do you think I would've created this post?

 

[Explosion Man]

nop, that would be kenny probably....

Kenny is wrong, he is right that the argument is about semantics but we aren't the one arguing semantics, you are.

And no there isn't a good escape for a fully locked submission but no one is saying there is, there are however escapes that do sometimes work against fully locked submissions.

Just because there are escapes to fully lock submissions it doesn't mean submissions won't work, there are a myriad of reasons why submissions work and why they won't work.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Honest ad style:

Here's how to escape some submissions. Not any submissions, not even most submissions. Not even that many submissions honestly. Mostly submissions done poorly by people worse than you, and since you're buying an instructional app in the first place, that's probably not a whole lot of people. So really we're talking about a couple people here. And you probably beat them anyway.

The concepts are sound, and sometimes you will even see someone like Roger using them to escape. But you are way worse than Roger and always will be, so don't kid yourself about getting the same results. You suck, and you're going to still suck even after buying my app.

Now give me $3.99 right now.

/thread.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. At worst, it's a headline that is prone to misinterpretation.

As for the debate about whether it's possible to escape a fully locked RNC: Of course it's possible!

Submissions are positions that use leverage to magnify your mechanical strength. But they don't make you infinitely strong. Sometimes the leverage provided by the submission is inadequate to overcome differences in attributes like size, strength, or conditioning.

I have rolled with one GIANT beast of a man who could peel off my locked in RNC when he was fresh. I had to be really careful to hide my hands, because if he got any grip, his strength would take over. And I'm a 200 lbs man. Imagine how easily he could do that to a 100 lbs woman.

That's an extreme example. But the better your technique at "last ditch" escapes, the better your chances of exploiting your attributes to escape locked in subs a very, very minute percentage of the time.

he doesnt need to be that much stronger, a Giant beast will poses another type of problem, the biggest problem will be his neck strengh and him probably having no neck, this gets his chin in the mix most of the times, at least some. Regarding him peeling it off, he would posses the same type of problem that a person of your size weight/strenght would, as you said, you cannot let him grab your locking hand/forearm, you have to hide it, if he gets a hold of it, hes probably going to be able to peel it off, and he doesnt need to be brock lesnar for that (certanly wont hurt his chances though).

 

[Fencer]

holy shit, what part of IM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE TITLE of this particular product you dont understand? you keep trying to drag me into bashing stephan, im not doing it, I didnt do it, and I wont do it. I dont think he uses Lloys type of mkt, EXCEPT FOR THIS TITLE OF HIS BLOG.

Is because stephan has never got into llyods type of mkt that I was suriprised and why I created this post.. if I had that impression on him, do you think I would've created this post?

Actually, his marketing is exactly the same as Lloyd's. I have a habit of never deleting email, and I have these kinds of email advertisements from Stephan and Lloyd going back several years.

They both use the fake sense of urgency with excessive exclamation points "only 27 copies left!!", "I'll sell this set again at some point in the future, but I'll charge at least fifty bucks more". They both have the arbitrary discounting "These are going for $97 each, instead of the regular price of $147", "as always when I release it I'm going to give everyone a great discount of $50, making the initial release of this complete system only $147".

They both have the long lists of bulleted hyperbole with a healthy dose of "Five KILLER moves", "Four critical details", "A super-slick technique", "Become a Ninja by learning to", "easy-to-learn instant 'game changers'", "Mindset secret", etc.

Marketing is marketing, and it doesn't offend me. But let's not kid ourselves just because Stephan occasionally posts here, and because no one likes Lloyd.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

It's silly to suggest there is no way to escape a fully locked RNC or Triangle. There are plenty of ways to escape these locked positions.

 

[Darkslide632]

Wrong! A submission isn't fully locked in until something is broken, someone is asleep, or someone taps. Up until that point, apparently, it's only "mostly locked in".

 

[Dirty Holt]

In Mr. Kesting's defense, he never really posts gimmicky bullshit techniques. Most of it is aimed at beginners and is bare bone basics. Cant really go wrong.

 

[Osstopher McGi]

Wrong! A submission isn't fully locked in until something is broken, someone is asleep, or someone taps. Up until that point, apparently, it's only "mostly locked in".

 

[oyaji poi]

Nice one.