Stephan Kesting, this is plain wrong (three ways to escape any submission app)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BJJ_Rage, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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  2. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Meh. A lil hyperbole never hurt nobody.
     
  3. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    Come on, really? No possible way to escape an RNC or triangle once it's "fully locked"?
     
  4. snakeybizz

    snakeybizz Purple Belt

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    I'm confused what has he said wrong?
     
  5. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    I understand that this app is targeting whitebelts/bran new blues, but a little disclaimer on the bottom saying "although the escapes shown are legit and do work on some people, you are not getting out of a fully locked RNC applied by a competent grappler" , at the end, white belts dont care about getting subbed by purples, they see purples as jedis, so it probably wont hurt its audience.
     
  6. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    no theres no way to escape a fully locked RNC, at least not one applied by a competent grappler, if you do have a good technique, you should post it and put it on test, on video, and then sell the details, you will make a pretty good ammount of money out of it.
     
  7. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    Grab the hand that's behind your neck, pull it down, control it, grab other hand. Sure it's very hard to pull off while getting choked out, but it exists.

    You can even get out of a fully locked armbar, see Vinny vs Werdum. So he's not technically wrong, you *can* get out of any submission.
     
  8. Codger

    Codger Brown Belt

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    I see no point in doing that at all. I really don't know where you're coming from on this. Are we supposed to be concerned about a host of while belts maliciously deceived into thinking they can escape from fully locked subs by a blog post containing the words "Late escapes aren’t as easy to pull off, or as high percentage, as escaping before or during, but you still need to know them."

    Anyway, it depends how you read it. The title says there are 3 ways to escape any submission. And there are 3 ways, if you define them as early, middle and late. It's not saying or even implying IMO that all 3 ways are 100% all the time.

    Talk about a storm in a teacup.
     
  9. The Karate Man

    The Karate Man Blue Belt

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  10. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    A competent grappler is not ever going to get you get to his locking hand, thats why you close the space with your head, the only way to get to that hand is if the choker lets a big space between his opponents head and his, and no competent grapplers is going to do that, so no there is no way to escape a fully applied RNC by performed by a competent grappler.

    Armbars, sure but I never mentioned armbars, I specifically said RNC, and triangles also, although there is some people whos very hard to choke with arm in chokes, so Triangles yeah theres some ways to defend them.
     
  11. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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  12. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Dogstarman

    Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

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    It's called marketing. Relax man he isn't selling snake oil. A lot if what he wrote is true anyway.
     
  14. Codger

    Codger Brown Belt

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    Well it is a blog post but clearly relating to his app.

    Where does it say that his app will teach you how to escape any locked in submission being applied by a suitably expert person?

    He's not making any guarantees and anyone bothering to read the blog post will see he clearly states that late escapes are not always effective.
     
  15. _Glorfindel_

    _Glorfindel_ MMA Coach

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    :eek: not your best post Rage ��...
     
  16. sb413197

    sb413197 Red Belt

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    I dunno man, in the heat of the moment people make mistakes. I've seen plenty of high level grapplers' RNCs fail due to the opponent pulling away the locking hand and fighting their way out. It happens in MMA all the time. I'll bet that if you put a fully locked RNC or triangle on Marcelo Garcia or Roger Gracie (or maybe the guy in your AV) they would get out most of the time. Rickson used to do that kind of thing in the day - go to a local gym and let the blackbelt put him in a fully locked sub, then escape and sub him.

    I don't see anything wrong with Kesting's text you posted. Obviously it is much harder to escape a deep sub than preventing it in the first place - but there are escapes out there. But by saying "hail mary" and "lower percentage" he's obviously acknowledging they won't work every time or anything crazy like that.
     
  17. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    im wating for your jedi escape...
     
  18. sb413197

    sb413197 Red Belt

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    Rage you aren't a native English speaker right? Maybe that's some of the problem. The way he wrote it doesn't seem to indicate the impression you got.
     
  19. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    plenty of RNC are escaped, but they are not fully locked, fully locked means hand behind the head, not on top of the head (even if the choking arm is under the chin), which is normally how poeple do it in MMA (due to gloves making it very hard to slide the hand behind the neck). Regarding your question on MArcelo or Roger, I wont comment on myself, saying I could choke out roger or marcelo even if they let me get the choked fully locked is just an insult. But Im sure as hell no one is escaping Roger RNC, nor Marcelos, nor Roger or Marcelo or any competent grappler.

    Rickson is not human, so he doesnt count :icon_chee
     
  20. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    hmm could be... Im mainly complaining about the title though, the title is whats most misleading.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015

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