State of the LHW division: Bad or Terrible?

[Rum]

Its even worse than HW. MMA just isn't attracting many high level fighters or any real athletes.

It is in the smaller classes, where guys have the killer athleticism but not the size to play in the Premier League or NFL or whatever.

But yeah, at MW, LHW, HW we're pretty much watching leftovers.

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

Yeah it's really kind of stale these days. Compare that to MW, WW and LW where all of the top 10 guys are killers

 

[FightsFTW]

It's pretty bad, I was looking at the top 10 during the post fight show and I was thinking
"wow that's the top 10 right now?" Pretty fucking shitty honestly.

 

[Titan1980]

Not the diamond showcase it once was. I can't fighter bash though.

Jones literally had everyone packing down or staying up. It's like a nuke went off around that guy. Everyone else is playing second string to him. If ( as in when ) he comes back and regains his title and then Takes out Rumble on a future date; It has potential for Jones and that's about it. If he starts superfighting it has an ability to explode in the media like it used to when there were only the first divisions.

 

[Bmurray]

I dont think so, first the division is very solid with lots of contenders, pretty much most of the top 5 guys in the division can be champs on any given night. And you have some solid guys outside the top 8 to 15, wont be champs but interesting match ups. Its not the strongest division but its not the weakest either.

Help me understand here how Shogun is borderline top 15 when he's ranked #8 on the UFC rankings and #8 on mmaweekly?? And Cormier, Gus, Rashad, all fought for the title and lost as well, whats your point???

All divisions contain contenders by default, since anyone inside the top-5 is a contender. Strong divisions have guys from 5-15 that seem like they could be contenders. Shogun being #8 right now, if anything, is an indicator of just how shallow the division is.

To be honest there's a few divisions that are just...lacking. If pay doesn't increase that's the way it will stay.

 

[Dart Feld]

Nah, it's been shite for years.

- Shogun gets title shot off a 2-fight win streak from crap win over 44yo semi-retired Coleman and KO of Chuck.

- Rampage gets title shot off 2-fight win streak.

- Lyoto gets title shot off a 1-2 streak where the one win was over 48yo Randy.

- Vitor gets title shot after not fighting at LHW for 5 years, at which point he had dropped to MW off a 4-5 run.

- Chael gets title shot after not fighting at LHW for 7 years, at which point he had dropped to MW off a 3-5 run.

- Gus gets title shot off a 1st round KO loss.


Every division has a blip every few years, but for 205 a shithouse contender is not a blip every few years, it's a regular part of the game. The division's been half a joke for at least half a decade.

I mean, there are only 33 or so guys in the division for fuck's sake. If you're in the top half you're almost guaranteed to be Top 15.

Jones won the title as a replacement when #1 contender Rashad dropped out.

Lawler won the title riding a 2 fight winning streak. Current champ

RDA won the title as a replacement when #1 contender Khabib dropped out. Current champ.

TJ Dillashaw won the title as a replacement when Cruz dropped out. Current champ

MM won the title while coming off being 1-1-1. Current champ

There's more to measuring a division than streaks of the challengers. There's def. a lot wrong with LHW(lack of prospects, small roster, currently a paper title division). For a storied division like LHW, being a former champ boosts credibility for a title shot and those guys(with the exception of Chael and Vitor) were top LHWs at the time. The speed at which Jones was defending in his first year and a half was high for the time which hastened title fights as well. There were alot of issues with the Chael and Vitor title shots, least of them being streaks.

Now this upcoming Gus/Cormier fight is def. a joke. I'll agree esp. when there's a contender on a streak that was denied.

 

[Bmurray]

Jones won the title as a replacement when #1 contender Rashad dropped out.

Lawler won the title riding a 2 fight winning streak. Current champ

RDA won the title as a replacement when #1 contender Khabib dropped out. Current champ.

TJ Dillashaw won the title as a replacement when Cruz dropped out. Current champ

MM won the title while coming off being 1-1-1. Current champ

There's more to measuring a division than streaks of the challengers. There's def. a lot wrong with LHW(lack of prospects, small roster, currently a paper title division). For a storied division like LHW, being a former champ boosts credibility for a title shot and those guys(with the exception of Chael and Vitor) were top LHWs at the time. The speed at which Jones was defending in his first year and a half was high for the time which hastened title fights as well. There were alot of issues with the Chael and Vitor title shots, least of them being streaks.

Now this upcoming Gus/Cormier fight is def. a joke. I'll agree esp. when there's a contender on a streak that was denied.

Jones was undefeated.
Many thought Lawler beat Hendricks in their first fight, and he was 5 for 6 even with that loss.
RDA had won 3 in a row.
TJ was 5 for his last 6, and his loss was a split decision.
125 was and is weak, and DJ's loss was to a 135, and before that he was 17-1

Appreciate the effort put in, but these references aren't comparable to the post you're replying to.

 

[Rum]

Jones won the title as a replacement when #1 contender Rashad dropped out.

Lawler won the title riding a 2 fight winning streak. Current champ

RDA won the title as a replacement when #1 contender Khabib dropped out. Current champ.

TJ Dillashaw won the title as a replacement when Cruz dropped out. Current champ

MM won the title while coming off being 1-1-1. Current champ

There's more to measuring a division than streaks of the challengers. There's def. a lot wrong with LHW(lack of prospects, small roster, currently a paper title division). For a storied division like LHW, being a former champ boosts credibility for a title shot and those guys(with the exception of Chael and Vitor) were top LHWs at the time. The speed at which Jones was defending in his first year and a half was high for the time which hastened title fights as well. There were alot of issues with the Chael and Vitor title shots, least of them being streaks.

Now this upcoming Gus/Cormier fight is def. a joke. I'll agree esp. when there's a contender on a streak that was denied.

I get where you're coming from but as counters go those are pretty poor examples.

Jones was undefeated.
Lawler's only loss at WW was a title fight.
RDA was on an 3-fight win streak and 8-1 in his last 9.
TJ I'll give you for sure.
MM won the title undefeated at Flyweight and was so successful fighting a weight class above he made it to a title fight.

A better example would be something like Nick Diaz getting the shot at GSP off a loss, but it's really, really hard to find anything at other divisions as ridiculous as what LHW has delivered continually for years and years now.

It's a storied division because big guys hitting each other is big spectacle, not because it's ever had P4P the best talent.

 

[Dart Feld]

I get where you're coming from but as counters go those are pretty poor examples.

Jones was undefeated.
Lawler's only loss at WW was a title fight.
RDA was on an 3-fight win streak and 8-1 in his last 9.
TJ I'll give you for sure.
MM won the title undefeated at Flyweight and was so successful fighting a weight class above he made it to a title fight.

A better example would be something like Nick Diaz getting the shot at GSP off a loss, but it's really, really hard to find anything at other divisions as ridiculous as what LHW has delivered continually for years and years now.

It's a storied division because big guys hitting each other is big spectacle, not because it's ever had P4P the best talent.

I think the counter was sufficient considering the lack of exposition on those title shots past the streaks alone in your previous post. My whole point was using that as the main basis to malign the division was pretty flimsy.

As for your last line I think you should rewatch some of the classic LHW title fights over the years and maybe you'll see more talent. Their most heralded fights btw mostly being decisions with great striking battles like Machida/Shogun or well rounded MMA fights like Page/Hendo or back and gritty fights like Jones/Gus in this era. That's just on the UFC side, not even delving into the Pride MW/203 lbs. division.

It def. was one of the most talent rich divisions in its peak.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

I think the counter was sufficient considering the lack of exposition on those title shots past the streaks alone in your previous post. My whole point was using that as the main basis to malign the division was pretty flimsy.

As for your last line I think you should rewatch some of the classic LHW title fights over the years and maybe you'll see more talent. Their most heralded fights btw mostly being decisions with great striking battles like Machida/Shogun or well rounded MMA fights like Page/Hendo or back and gritty fights like Jones/Gus in this era. That's just on the UFC side, not even delving into the Pride MW/203 lbs. division.

It def. was one of the most talent rich divisions in its peak.

UFC just needs some new blood at LHW. It is out there. The division is just a bit messy right now, is all.

 

[Rum]

I think the counter was sufficient considering the lack of exposition on those title shots past the streaks alone in your previous post. My whole point was using that as the main basis to malign the division was pretty flimsy.

You countered my examples of fighters who got shots off of cack form by providing examples of fighters who got shots off of great form. I put up guys with cack streaks in the relevant division, you responded with guys on hot streaks in the relevant divisions. It makes little sense to me, unless you were trying to back up my point, which you did successfully. So, y'know ... high five and stuff.

The point is that the depth of the talent pool of any division can be judged by the ability to provide in-form contenders. Win streaks are obviously the primary indicator of form. LHW has obviously struggled in this area regularly and at a significantly higher rate than the likes of WW, LW and FW, suggesting that, P4P, it is a significantly weaker division.

As for your last line I think you should rewatch some of the classic LHW title fights over the years and maybe you'll see more talent. Their most heralded fights btw mostly being decisions with great striking battles like Machida/Shogun or well rounded MMA fights like Page/Hendo or back and gritty fights like Jones/Gus in this era. That's just on the UFC side, not even delving into the Pride MW/203 lbs. division.

It def. was one of the most talent rich divisions in its peak.

LHW absolutely has provided some talented fighters and impressive battles, but, again, it has provided far fewer of them than the likes of WW, LW and FW because LHW has always had far fewer fighters in it than WW, LW and FW. It's always been very popular, but that's because - to casuals - size matters. The spectacle of big dudes hitting each other ... outweighs ... the generally superior talent at the smaller classes.

 

[acolyteofpain]

in a terrible shape right now obviously but what really worries me is the lack of incoming talent in the higher weightclasses.

With Jones as the champ it was still easy not to care too much but now with the real champion gone the division is not just thin but seriously boring, feels totally insignificant to watch a bunch of used up, old semi-contenders challenge a paper champion.