standing 8 count

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by fenway926, May 6, 2008.

  1. fenway926

    fenway926 Green Belt

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    hey everybody, im new to boxing, and want clarification on exactly what a "standing 8 count" is.

    thanks for the help guys
     
  2. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone Yellow Card

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    When a boxer is knocked down, hes given a count of eight to ensure hes able to continue.

    Watch classic fights and you'll see fighters getting hit before they are even on their feet and it was OK. Now its about making sure the fighter is able to defend. It gives the ref a minute to look at the fighter and gives the fighter a moment to be sure he can continue.
     
  3. mschatz

    mschatz Hamma: I has it

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    Standing 8 Count : When a fighter looks to be in trouble (i.e. on the verge of being seriously injured), the referee stops the fight and counts to 8 so that he may determine if the boxer is able to continue. Sometimes fighters can be knocked down and get up but yet be "out on their feet."
     
  4. fenway926

    fenway926 Green Belt

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    so what is the difference between this and a 10 count
     
  5. Valiss

    Valiss __________

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    If it goes to 10, you lose.
     
  6. fenway926

    fenway926 Green Belt

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    so they always give you an 8 count, and if your not up by 10 you lose... ok that helps.

    thanks again guys
     
  7. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone Yellow Card

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    They don't HAVE to give an 8 count. The ref can just decide there has been enough punishment.
     
  8. RanDomK**

    RanDomK** Orange Belt

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    ugh...the dempsey-willard fight comes to mind here where dempsey completely destroys willard...just stalks and waits for him to get up and unloads on him again..it was damn vicious to watch

    youtube it to see clearly why there is a 8 count
     
  9. bradlee180

    bradlee180 Banned Banned

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    The Standing 8 Count is garbage and ought to be thrown out.

    A professional fighter's goal is to KO the other man, and just when he's finally got the guy just where he wants him, ie In BIG Trouble, and when just another punch or 2 would bring the KO he's been working so hard for...,the REF breaks in between them, STOPPING the action, giving the hurt man a standing 8 Count, PREVENTING the KO from happening.

    F'in $#!t-rule that takes the victory away from a man as the almost-finished man is saved by the Standing 8 Count, gets on his bicycle, and sometimes gets back in the fight, sometimes even winning when by all rights, he should have been knocked out rds earlier.

    Standing 8 Count doesn't ensure "fighter safety".
    It steals the KO victory away from 1 man, and also often just allows the hurt fighter a brief respite where he collects his senses enough to take further punishment.

    Instead of 1 or 2 more punches which would KO the man, the Standing 8 Count rescues him from the KO but then he often just takes dozens more punches to the head for several more rds following the Standing 8 Count.

    The Standing 8 Count is another bull$#!t rule which gained a lot of credence because of the misguided support of the WBC's Jose Sulaiman who also bears blame for:
    - elimination of 15 rd fights in favour of 12 rds.
    - the change from SAME-DAY weigh-ins to DAY-BEFORE weigh-ins.
    - the creation of all these super and junior intermediate weight classes (From 8 classes to 17!)
    - Jose Sulaiman also bears blame for the creation of the Cruiserweight division because he thought the perfect-sized fighting men (185 to 215 lb heavyweights) could not compete with bigger 230+ lb modern Heavyweights.


    A big Thumbs down to the F'in Standing 8 Count which steals KO victories away from warriors, and also allows the injured fighter to take many additional concussive head-blows...only to be given ANOTHER Standing 8 Count, another save, and then MORE concussive head-blows.

    An even BIGGER Thumbs down to Jose Sulaiman for severely damaging the sport of Boxing.
     
  10. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone Yellow Card

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    ^^^^

    Yeah but the way classic fighters used to hover over the opponent with a punch ready was ridiculous. If you got knocked down, the fight was pretty much over because you weren't getting back to your feet.
     
  11. bradlee180

    bradlee180 Banned Banned

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    That's the name of the game.
    KO the man, beat him into submission, get him before he gets you.
    That is what a fight is. It's a brutal reality, but professional fighters make the decision to enter this brutal trade. Frankly, I'm always amazed that Boxing is legal at all because utimately it's legalized assault, beating up (or attempting to beat up) another man for payment...with thousands of eye-witnesses to the assault.
    With millions upon millions of dollars to be made, THAT'S why it's legal.
    However, it's also man to man within some rules , and it will ALWAYS hold appeal.

    Tunney knocked down Dempsey with a great right hand, hovered there despite the new neutral corner rule, and Dempsey immediately got back to his feet and resumed chasing Tunney around the ring.

    Without the Standing 8 Count (which became widespread only in about 1982 or '83), plenty of fighters got back to their feet and got back in the fight; it wasn't "pretty much over" because a man was knocked down. It seems you're thinking of the neutral corner rule ie hover over the opponent, not the Standing 8 Count.

    Do you approve of referees completely CHANGING the outcome of the fight?
     
  12. GlassJaw

    GlassJaw SBC hustler.

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    LOL, GTFO. The standing 8 count is just fine thank you very much. As Seano said, the old days of "Hover over your downed opponent" is what was nonsense( and resulted in many more ringside injuries and ultimately in-ring deaths). A smart fighter should take an 8 count regardless if the rule is in effect. The referee is in the ring to ensure the fighters safety. He thinks the fighters had enough, it's his job to stop it. There's been plenty of times a referee has stopped before the standing 8 finished. The ref thinks the fighter's able to go on, and the standing 8 is in effect, then it goes on. Sure there's been situations where a fighters used the standing 8 to survive and bend the rules (spitting out the mouthpiece and so forth) but there's ALWAYS been controversy over human error and the referee and there always will be.
     
  13. mschatz

    mschatz Hamma: I has it

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    A case in point was in evidence last night on ESPN Classics. They had the old Max Baer vs Primo Carnera on last night. Max Baer knocks Primo down in the first, and as soon as he stumbles up to a knee, he's getting hit again. He probably got hit a half dozen good shots while being what would be called "down" in todays game. Pretty sickening really.
     
  14. Flboycanscrap2

    Flboycanscrap2 Purple Belt

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    under the unified rules of boxing there is no standing 8, as seen in any championship fight and higher profile bouts. It is more so something made for amateur boxing rather than professional.

    The term of a "standing" 8 count in amateur boxing can also mean that the fight has not been knocked down but seems in trouble and the ref decides to give him 8 seconds to recover from basically being out on his feet.
     
  15. fenway926

    fenway926 Green Belt

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    WOW. that was ridiculous. thanks for pointing it out to me though. i get the reason for the standing 8 count now.
     
  16. endovelico

    endovelico Brown Belt

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    People are giving the Dempsey - Willard fight as an example as to why there should be a stading 8 count, but to me that slaughterfest has more to do with the fact they didnt force the Boxers to go back to the their corners after a KD.

    I could do without the stading 8 if im honest, but is fine either way.
     
  17. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone Yellow Card

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    Good point. The standing 8 rule may be less important than the neutral corner rule. Still, the standing 8 gives the ref that moment to look at the fighter.
     
  18. bradlee180

    bradlee180 Banned Banned

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    Man, now that was a good fight, huh?!! Baer and Carnera. 11 knockdowns in 11 rds.
    Now you're talkin', now you're talkin',

    Even better is Dempsey/Willard. 7 knockdowns.

    Dempsey/Firpo. About 4 minutes of fighting with Dempsey down twice (or perhaps thrice) and Firpo down 9 times...all over by rd 2.
    It appears that Dempsey's knees hit the canvas in the opening seconds, but it's hard to tell in the film. Then Firpo's down 5 times, then Dempsey's down (both gloves touch the mat), then Firpo's down twice more, then Dempsey's down and out of the ring...all in Rd 1.
    Rd 2, and Firpo's down twice more to close out the show. Spectacular!
    YouTube - Jack Dempsey vs. Luis Firpo

    Max Baer battering Max Schmeling about the ring was another terrific fight!

    Graziano vs Zale. Too bad the first 2 weren't filmed.

    Archie Moore vs Yvon Durelle. The LAZARUS Man.

    Bert Cooper vs Michael Moorer.

    George Foreman vs Ron Lyle.

    Corrales vs Castillo.

    Hearns vs Hagler.

    Patterson vs Johansson

    Prince Charles Williams vs Merqui Sosa

    Matthew Saad Muhammad vs Marvin Johnson
    Matthew Saad Muhammad vs Lopez

    Gatti vs Ward.

    Frazier vs Foreman

    Now you're talkin', now you're talkin',
    Glad to see you appreciate seeing a Good Scrap!


    F'in fights are stopped too soon nowadays with either a ref waving it off on no knockdown at all OR on the 3 knockdown rule, and the result?:
    Modern fights are stopped before they can ever become classics whereas the old true classic fights: man, they let those devils Fight!
    They let them fight, they let them go; that's why those fights became classics. Nowadays they stop most of them just when they're getting good, before they can become the classic fights they could've turned out to be.
     
  19. Tam-Tam

    Tam-Tam Management vs Labour

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    Wow...
     
  20. GlassJaw

    GlassJaw SBC hustler.

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    Ya know, i was hoping for some classic tam-tam damnit, :icon_twis
     

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