Squat question

[BorrowDolla]

I was wondering if either the inside or outside of the hamstrings are being targeted more if you squat with your feet rotated more outwards (while keeping proper knee alignment). Its my understanding that the inner thigh gets targeted more but I'm talking specifically about hamstrings.

I'd test for myself but it appears I have a torn hamstring on the outside of my leg.

 

[belph]

inner hamstring ? outer hamstring ?

 

[Gingervitis]

inner hamstring ? outer hamstring ?

Don't forget the hamstring peak, bro.

Ts this may help: Hamstring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

edit:

I'd test for myself but it appears I have a torn hamstring on the outside of my leg.

What do you mean by "it appears"? I'd be more sure of what's wrong first if I were you before doing anything else.

 

[BorrowDolla]

Don't forget the hamstring peak, bro.

Ts this may help: Hamstring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

edit:


What do you mean by "it appears"? I'd be more sure of what's wrong first if I were you before doing anything else.

Eh well, I'm referring to the biceps femoris but it doesn't say much about it in the link except "The long head of the biceps femoris extends the hip as when beginning to walk; both short and long heads flex the knee and laterally (outwardly) rotates the lower leg when the knee is bent."

I'm not doing any exercises with it (although I did try to activate my glutes). I'm treating it as if its torn. This is what it looks like ImageShack Album - 5 images

 

[Tosa]

Either you can squat normally without worrying about any of this, or you should see a doctor.

 

[Revok]

Yes there is a difference. I think outward rotation of the feet innervates the bicep femoris, and inward rotation favours the other portions of the hamstring muscles, the semimembranosus/semitendinosus.

Of course they're both recruited to a high degree when full squatting, so don't go thinking a slight shift in foot placement is going to protect either an injured S&S or BF and allow you to miraculously train around the injury.

 

[BorrowDolla]

No, its not my intent at all to do squats with this injury. I'm mainly asking this because after doing 3 squat sessions, I failed to activate my glutes. Glute activation increases when you have your hips further splayed, so I'm thinking that i was not properly hitting my over stretched biceps femoris because of this as well.

Also its very good to know this for the future when I eventually do heal up. I'm not going to risk re-injury so barring any crazy recovery it will be at least a month before I'm squatting with weights.

 

[Eric Brown]

1. How do you know you have a tear?
2. Glute activation also depends on the depth of your squat:
The effect of back squat depth on the EM... [J Strength Cond Res. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI
3. How do you know they did not activate? You had EMG analysis while squatting? Unless your ass has fallen off, it is impossible to squat without using your gluteus maximus. The GM functions to straighten the hip by retracting the thigh and extending your torso. Unless no movement occurred at your hip joint, which is impossible, your gluteus maximus activation. Glute med and min will activate to stabilize your thigh during the squat, and some assistance during hip flexion.
4. Glute maximus activation is greater with a wider stance, but only under high load:
http://www.castonline.ilstu.edu/mccaw/hpr482/EMGREAD_files/4540 McCaw and Melrose squat EMG.pdf
Unless there is significant weight being used, which increases the need for the GM to activate secondary to an increase in forward lean/hip flexion-extension, stance width does not significantly affect the activation of the glute max. Med and mid may get activation more, but their contributions to power in the squat is minimal.

 

[watango]

What are you squatting? the main thing is that you should have your feet in a position that you can hold comfortably for time in the bottom position. knees track the feet, don't extend over the toes and keep your back straight.
Like it said above if you are hurt see a medical professional. Train for life not just for the next workout.

 

[Tosa]

Oh-noes, their knees are going past their toes ...




Seriously though, the entire "don't let your knees go past your toes" thing is a pet peeve of mine, and is, at best, very silly.

First of all, there's no solid research or reasoning behind it. Yes, there's less stress on the knees when they don't travel forward as much, but that's only because there's more stress on the hips and back in return. It's a zero sum problem, all you can do is an attempt to balance the stress between the two in a way that's appropriate for you, your goals, and any issues you may have.

Second, people can have different sized feet. Personally, I have small feet for my height, does this mean I have to sit back even more so that my knees don't go over my toes? That would be stupid.

Third, it's not a useful technique cue. You can learn what being tight, sitting back, breaking at the hips, depth, and not letting the knees cave, and all those things feel like. And if you do all that, your squats will be good. How the hell am I supposed to feel whether my knees are over my toes or not?

 

[KnuckleSangwich]

I feel like knees over the toes is more useful when squatting wide. When, basically, you don't want your knees traveling forward more than a couple of inches and a main focus is sitting way back and pushing your knees out. For closer stance squatters, I would have to agree with Tosa in that it's a fairly silly cue.

May be an appropriate cue for this guy. If his knees come out over his toes he's probably not sitting back enough.

For closer stance squatters I think you're ok. So says this guy.

 

[Tosa]

May be an appropriate cue for this guy. If his knees come out over his toes he's probably not sitting back enough.

Why wouldn't you just tell him to sit back more? Even if the end result would be the same, it's more effective to think in terms of "do" sit back, than "don't" let the knees come forward. When you think "don't", you have to think of the thing you're not supposed to do, which can actually interfere with technique.

 

[KnuckleSangwich]

Why wouldn't you just tell him to sit back more? Even if the end result would be the same, it's more effective to think in terms of "do" sit back, than "don't" let the knees come forward. When you think "don't", you have to think of the thing you're not supposed to do, which can actually interfere with technique.

That's the thing. You would tell him to sit back more. That's why it's a bad cue. A partner/trainer/coach may use the knees over the toes as a visual cue to tell the squatter to sit back more but its useless as personal cue. When I squatted wider my (more experienced) partners could tell I wasn't sitting back enough when my knees came forward.

As you said how the hell are you going to monitor where your knees are at in relation to your toes mid-movement. The best you can do is sit back HARD.


It's an interesting topic because in my experience when squatting wider you want to sit back but it's more of a sit back/sink between your hips type idea, if that makes any sense. Where with a narrower stance you're still sitting back and pushing your knees out but that sink between the hips isn't there.

 

[BorrowDolla]

I'm having pains now on my other leg in the same area. idk whats goin on.

1. How do you know you have a tear?
2. Glute activation also depends on the depth of your squat:
The effect of back squat depth on the EM... [J Strength Cond Res. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI
3. How do you know they did not activate? You had EMG analysis while squatting? Unless your ass has fallen off, it is impossible to squat without using your gluteus maximus. The GM functions to straighten the hip by retracting the thigh and extending your torso. Unless no movement occurred at your hip joint, which is impossible, your gluteus maximus activation. Glute med and min will activate to stabilize your thigh during the squat, and some assistance during hip flexion.
4. Glute maximus activation is greater with a wider stance, but only under high load:
http://www.castonline.ilstu.edu/mccaw/hpr482/EMGREAD_files/4540 McCaw and Melrose squat EMG.pdf
Unless there is significant weight being used, which increases the need for the GM to activate secondary to an increase in forward lean/hip flexion-extension, stance width does not significantly affect the activation of the glute max. Med and mid may get activation more, but their contributions to power in the squat is minimal.

1. I'm not positive it's a tear. I've never had a tear before. Maybe someone can tell me? ImageShack Album - 5 images (photos are too big for thread)




3. I'm just saying I wasn't getting the same workout in my ass as I used to get a year ago before I stopped weight lifting. Also if I just do regular standing squats, I get the same feeling. However, if I do a few quick leg shuffles and then squat, I do feel it in my glutes.

What are you squatting?

Light amounts. So this is probably the problem as Arlecchino mentioned, but I also did ATG squats and did not feel my glutes active.