split body, 5x5, isolation

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by shielja, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. shielja Blue Belt

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    ive been doing weights for a while but want to focus primarily now on strength rather than aesthetics, the faq here has confused me more than helped me. For mma is there any reason why i couldnt do a split body routine like for example like this:

    mon:legs
    wed:shoulders,triceps
    thur:back, biceps
    sat: chest

    and using this split do my compound excercises i.e deadlift doing sets of 5x5 but also including isolation excercises in my workout i.e bicep curls using sets of 12 to 8 to 6 to 4

    hope that makes sense, any feedback would be much appreciated as i'm confused about what the best options are???
     
  2. DrBdan Something clever

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    You should be doing the compound lifts, that's for sure. The biggest issue with adding isolation work is that it will wear you out more for less benefit. I imagine that training MMA would be tough on your body and you would want to be as fresh as possible for that. I think you would be better off sticking to a few compound lifts and putting the rest of your energy into skill work and/or conditioning. However, if you can add in that extra work without affecting those other areas, go nuts.

    A wise man once said: "Like mustard, (curls) have their place. You want to put mustard on a ham sandwich, that's great. You want to eat a bowlful of mustard, you're an idiot."

    Compound lifts = ham.

    Assuming that you are going to MMA multiple times/week (not just once or twice) you might also be better off lifting only 2 or 3 times/week. Have you read the FAQ?
     
  3. shielja Blue Belt

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    lol love the analogy, yeah ive read the faq in depth but there were so many different routines i wasnt sure on which ones to pay attention too, i'm thinking i could just work my biceps, triceps etc into my conditioning using varies on push ups rather than curls its just i have small forearms and havent really noticed push ups benefiting them in the same way curls can
     
  4. ssdd Purple Belt

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    Try doing more grip work. It will actually be useful to MMA while possibly making your forearms bigger.
     
  5. VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    Read. The. FAQ.
     
  6. Tosa Red Belt

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    Your forearms will be developed more through grip work and levering than curls.

    And since there seems to be more junk about bodypart splits than usual, so I'll explain in more detail: dividing the body up into body parts for training is meaningless and arbitrary, and doesn't accurately represent how the body actually works. There signifcant overlap between muscles used in various lifts. And, for those of us who aren't bodybuilders (everyone here) training movements is more important than training individual muscles (although an individual muscle might be trained if it's weak, has activation issues or imbalanced).

    Upper lower splits may be used...it's a reasonable division, and is done for pragmatic reasons...as a way to organize the various lifts that are trained across the weak, and organizing those training days. But the upper body and lower body aren't seperate entities and there's still overlap. Furthermore, a certain amount training frequency of lifts/movements/muscle groups is beneficial for many people. And squatting 2-3 times a week, pulling 2-3 times a week, and pressing 2-3 times a week is incompatible with dividing up the body into individual muscles.

    You could also look at this empirically. What are the routines that have worked best for getting other people strong? Are any of these body part splits? No.
     
  7. BONOSUX White Belt

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    Dudes, read his post. The first sentence said he read the faq and it confused him.

    although it is pretty straight forward...:redface:
     
  8. shielja Blue Belt

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    the purpose of splits is to train one area at a time so that the section of the body you've put emphasis on has more time to recover before your next session, therefore allowing your muscles to develop and adding to your gains in strength, surely if i just squat, bench and deadlift 3 times a week i'm not going to get as much benefit and am going to be more prone to picking up injuries or overtraining???
     
  9. Tosa Red Belt

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    There are good routines were you do squat, bench and deadlift 3x a week (or variations of those movements). For example, the Korte 3x3, which is nothing but squat, bench, deadlift, 3 times a week. And the vast majority of people don't need that amount of recovery time...too much time between training a lift/movement/muscle group can actually be detrimental. And an entire day to emphasize a particular muscle group is overkill...that's where the injuries and overtraining are more likely to occur.
     
  10. turbozed Red Belt

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    Well now it's obvious that you either haven't read the FAQ or at least did a really lousy job trying to understand it. When Tosa says pulling he means any pulling motion (deadlifts, cleans, rows, chins/pulls, etc.) and when he says pushing he means pushing motions. (bench press, overhead press, dips, etc.) Right now, squatting, pulling, and pushing 3 times a week is going to be your best use of your time if you want to gain strength. In fact, that model is the basis for most of the tried-and-true beginner routines (e.g, Starting Strength).

    You seem to have a lot of trouble accepting the fact that bodypart splits aren't appropriate for you. Why?
     
  11. shielja Blue Belt

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    its just from what i've been taught, i cant see the science behind it, surely if on a day you do bench,squat,deadlift then your backs going to be underworked because you've put your energy into your other body groups??? i'm not trying to be a dick btw i just want to know
     
  12. Tosa Red Belt

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    It's just an example, including some upper body pulls like rows or chins is a generally good idea. That said, if your upper back isn't being used is squats, bench and deads you're doing them wrong.
     
  13. AR6 Blue Belt

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    Mon:Squat/Bench/Deadlift
    Wed:Squat/OHP/Rows
    Frid: Squat/Bench/Power Clean

    The next week do OHP on Mon and Fri and Bench on Wed. Alternate the weeks like that.
    The rest is bullshit. Forget the curls and tricep shit.
    Come back when you are squatting 315 below parallel for 5 reps and deadlifting about 365 for 5, leaving the weight on the floor (no rebound) and no wraps.
     
  14. shielja Blue Belt

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    cool guys ill try that doing 5x5 and see how i get on, thanks for the advice :)
     
  15. turbozed Red Belt

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    Try to think about getting stronger as getting more efficient and able to exert more force in different directions (as opposed to isolating and exhausting your muscles). Compound movements not only work your muscles, they teach your CNS how to coordinate your muscles in order to perform basic athletic motions efficiently. Splitting the body up into parts doesn't make sense because your body doesn't only use one muscle group in isolation when you run, jump, swing a bat, tackle somebody, etc. Push/pull/squat provides a good strength base that, combined with learning the technique for the activity you wish to pursue, will generally lead to increased athleticism.
     

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