Soy- does it lower testosterone/raise estrogen

[Robocok]

I've heard some claim that it causes aromatase, others say it's a myth. Personally, I don't feel good when I eat soy so I avoid it, but is there any science to back this up?

This guy ate a lot of soy for a month and his test actually went up.



At 4:20 into this video, this 106 year old woman claims that eating soybeans and tofu is one of the secrets to her longevity.



At 11:20 of this video, Mikhaila Peterson talks about her negative reaction to reintroducing soy into her diet.



About a month ago, I quit eating grains, soy, vegetable oil, and most nightshade vegetables (occasional spicy) and I feel amazing. Prior to that I only avoided gluten and soy unless I had flare ups from my psoriatic arthritis in which case I would follow aip diet more strictly until my symptoms abated. Currently, I have a lot of energy, libido is good, my mind feels clearer on the more restrictive diet. I don't understand all of the science behind why this works, but I know without a doubt that I feel better. I try to only eat organic and I eat lots of meat.

Any opinions? Info to share? Thanks

 

[Robocok]

I wonder how much of it has to do with highly processed gmo garbage they sneak into everything versus the high quality stuff. I always feel like shit anytime I eat any kind of soy but I'm still curious about trying some good stuff like they make here in Japan where they have a lot of centenarians.

 

[wufabufa]

Like you I avoid soy. There's not really anything uniquely necessary in terms of micronutrients contained in soy that you can't find in other foods which don't have the same estrogenic properties. In my mind it's not worth the risk.

 

[ChrisK1]

The testosterone thing is MYTH per studies/meta. One of the documented reports of soy having an affect was about a 60 year old man drinking 3 liters of soy milk per day. The other is a vegan guy who ate basically nothing but soy. All studies showed virtually no affect on test and fertility.

Soy has a high anti-nutrient level depending on what form you're consuming - so that is more an area of concern.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

the phyto estro thing is a huge urban legend.

however, i hate soy powder. i think it is gmo’d to death due to being grown en masse for the farm animals. i think 98% of soy in america is made for them. we likely get the leftovers of that for cheap protein powders. always fucked my stomach up.

organic soy, or tempeh or miso, or any other form ive had does nothing bad to me.

 

[Robocok]

the phyto estro thing is a huge urban legend.

however, i hate soy powder. i think it is gmo’d to death due to being grown en masse for the farm animals. i think 98% of soy in america is made for them. we likely get the leftovers of that for cheap protein powders. always fucked my stomach up.

organic soy, or tempeh or miso, or any other form ive had does nothing bad to me.

I'd never heard of antinutrients before this so thanks. Interesting that a lot of the foods to be avoided on the aip diet are in this category... Guess I better cut back on the cashews now...

 

[wufabufa]

I'd never heard of antinutrients before this so thanks. Interesting that a lot of the foods to be avoided on the aip diet are in this category... Guess I better cut back on the cashews now...

There's a good amount of both phytates and lectins in soy. Lectins especially are a big no-no on AIP due to their ability create more gut permeability. Phytates bind to other essential minerals and can rob your body of nutrition. This is especially true of nuts and seeds. Plants need to reproduce so if the seed is ingested by an animal, it can then absorb other nutrients from the animal's gut contents which will further increase the quality of manure it will be crapped out in.

Plants are evil geniuses.

 

[wufabufa]

the phyto estro thing is a huge urban legend.

however, i hate soy powder. i think it is gmo’d to death due to being grown en masse for the farm animals. i think 98% of soy in america is made for them. we likely get the leftovers of that for cheap protein powders. always fucked my stomach up.

organic soy, or tempeh or miso, or any other form ive had does nothing bad to me.

I'm sure the fermentation process in tofu, tempeh, and miso helps breakdown some of that less desirable parts of soy. Same thing happens with me and sauerkraut. I can eat as much of it as I want, but if I have a decent helping of coleslaw it ends up exiting my poop chute quickly......and virtually intact.

 

[ChrisK1]

I'd never heard of antinutrients before this so thanks. Interesting that a lot of the foods to be avoided on the aip diet are in this category... Guess I better cut back on the cashews now...

No need to rings the alarm bells (hindsight might have been strong in my wording) - just need to soak/cook things. Almost all nuts come in some sort of roasted form.

Just like cruciferous veggies and goitrogens - better to be on the safe side.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

I'm sure the fermentation process in tofu, tempeh, and miso helps breakdown some of that less desirable parts of soy. Same thing happens with me and sauerkraut. I can eat as much of it as I want, but if I have a decent helping of coleslaw it ends up exiting my poop chute quickly......and virtually intact.

ya, i think fermentation and sprouting are big thangs

 

[wufabufa]

No need to rings the alarm bells (hindsight might have been strong in my wording) - just need to soak/cook things. Almost all nuts come in some sort of roasted form.

Just like cruciferous veggies and goitrogens - better to be on the safe side.

One of the issues I have with roasted nuts is that PUFA's go rancid super quick from the roasting process....that and most of them tend to be omega-6 bombs. I feel better now that I've eliminated nuts from my diet, my stomach is in much better shape. Some people can handle seeds and nuts pretty well though....lucky ducks.

 

[0_o]

There's a good amount of both phytates and lectins in soy. Lectins especially are a big no-no on AIP due to their ability create more gut permeability. Phytates bind to other essential minerals and can rob your body of nutrition. This is especially true of nuts and seeds. Plants need to reproduce so if the seed is ingested by an animal, it can then absorb other nutrients from the animal's gut contents which will further increase the quality of manure it will be crapped out in.

Plants are evil geniuses.

 

[Rented Gucci Mink]

@Robocok please get off YouTube and do actual research lol

Unless soy multiplies your estrogen levels what is there to worry about...if you get bloodwork and your E2 comes back between 10-40 or so pg/mL you're good.

Also Brian Turner is just another fake natty wannabe YouTuber/IG influencer "bodybuilder" trying to sell his bullshit coaching programs under the vegan banner. His test levels went up because he pins not because he ate soy for a month and even that's debatable because he's a snake oil salesman.

 

[Robocok]

@Robocok please get off YouTube and do actual research lol

Unless soy multiplies your estrogen levels what is there to worry about...if you get bloodwork and your E2 comes back between 10-40 or so pg/mL you're good.

Also Brian Turner is just another fake natty wannabe YouTuber/IG influencer "bodybuilder" trying to sell his bullshit coaching programs under the vegan banner. His test levels went up because he pins not because he ate soy for a month and even that's debatable because he's a snake oil salesman.

It's my fan! Still combing through my post history late into the night?

 

[Rented Gucci Mink]

It's my fan! Still combing through my post history late into the night?

I'm trying to help but ok...

 

[Robocok]

I'm trying to help but ok...

I'm just playing. Thanks man

 

[Brandon Robinson]

I've heard some claim that it causes aromatase, others say it's a myth. Personally, I don't feel good when I eat soy so I avoid it, but is there any science to back this up?

This guy ate a lot of soy for a month and his test actually went up.



At 4:20 into this video, this 106 year old woman claims that eating soybeans and tofu is one of the secrets to her longevity.



At 11:20 of this video, Mikhaila Peterson talks about her negative reaction to reintroducing soy into her diet.



About a month ago, I quit eating grains, soy, vegetable oil, and most nightshade vegetables (occasional spicy) and I feel amazing. Prior to that I only avoided gluten and soy unless I had flare ups from my psoriatic arthritis in which case I would follow aip diet more strictly until my symptoms abated. Currently, I have a lot of energy, libido is good, my mind feels clearer on the more restrictive diet. I don't understand all of the science behind why this works, but I know without a doubt that I feel better. I try to only eat organic and I eat lots of meat.

Any opinions? Info to share? Thanks

I try to avoid soy just in case, i can always get everything else from other food, doesn't taste any good anyway.

 

[shunyata]

For years there was a lot of nonsense about soy floating around the internet, but the big research studies looking into soy consumption and estrogen sensitive breast cancer has shown pretty much the opposite.

Significant soy consumption correlates with a slight decrease in risk of developing estrogen sensitive breast cancer and a slight increase in longevity and reduced rate of recurrence in those who have had a history of estrogen sensitive breast cancer.


Now if you have digestive or inflammatory issues that are aggravated by soy products, that's a different thing entirely but the "estrogenic" stuff has been blown out of proportion and extrapolated into the realm of fantasy. It was always theoretical, and the data we have now doesn't support the "soy is estrogenic" hypothesis.

 

[MescalineDreams]

It contains huge numbers of phytoestrogens which bind to estrogen receptors and act similarly

To my knowledge, ancient practices of fermenting soy in various ways consumes many of the harmful compounds / anti nutrients and makes it more ideal for male consumption

So if you're consuming tempeh, natto or a properly fermented soy sauce, I think the potential risk for the male reproduction system isnt nearly as noteworthy

Not a fan of consuming any level of soy personally

 

[MescalineDreams]

For years there was a lot of nonsense about soy floating around the internet, but the big research studies looking into soy consumption and estrogen sensitive breast cancer has shown pretty much the opposite.

Significant soy consumption correlates with a slight decrease in risk of developing estrogen sensitive breast cancer and a slight increase in longevity and reduced rate of recurrence in those who have had a history of estrogen sensitive breast cancer.


Now if you have digestive or inflammatory issues that are aggravated by soy products, that's a different thing entirely but the "estrogenic" stuff has been blown out of proportion and extrapolated into the realm of fantasy. It was always theoretical, and the data we have now doesn't support the "soy is estrogenic" hypothesis.

The idea of phytoestrogens binding to estrogen receptor sites is not theoretical whatsoever

I would agree it may have been blown out of proportion though depending on what form is consumed. Humans have been consuming soy for thousands of years but it was fermented. Much like gluten issues are a relatively modern thing yet we've been consuming bread for thousands of years with no issue. Modern processing seems to be the biggest culprit


But maybe more research Also needs to be done

I know after going out my sushi, my nips never fail to puff up like crazy. Anecdotally I have a fairly keen sense of what foods or supplements have an estrogenic effect.

I think some people are also highly sensitive to phyto / xenoestrogens and it can cause more imbalance for their hormones than others though