Sore from heavy bag... should i continue?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Respekt, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Respekt

    Respekt Guest

    This is a question about overtraining

    I've recently started to hit the heavy bag again (injury prevented me from doing anything for a few months). My arms have been pretty sore (forearms/biceps) for the past few days yet I continued to hit the bag with full intensity. It aches a little when I move it around but when i get into the rhythm the pain seems to completely disappear. Am I overtraining right now? should I take a day off from hitting the bag?

    The soreness doesn't limit me from doing daily activities (like reaching for stuff) but I still feel the pain if I extend my arm out completely (maybe 3-4 on a scale of 1-10).

    I only ask this because I don't want to go negative as I'm getting back into it. I used to be able to hit the heavy bag almost every day never feeling this sore.

    Thanks for any help
     
  2. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    9
    In general (80% of the time) a pain that is only felt several hours to a day or so after working out is just muscle soreness. If the pain is occuring during the exercise it is probably an injury and a sign of overtraining.

    If you are getting very sore from hitting the bag (muscle soreness), then you would do yourself a favor by giving yourself days off or easy days. The pain is due to microtears in the muscles which will eventually stimulate muscle growth. However, if you keep working out at high intensity and putting in more tears, you are not giving your body time to recover and get stronger. If all out is making you sore you should probably only go all out 3-4 times a week based on how long it takes you to recover (generally people need between one to two days after an intense session to fully recover).

    Also, why are your biceps sore??? They don't do much for punching other than stabilize hooks :rolleyes:
     
  3. Smw

    Smw Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Playing Hockey
    I don't know why you are asking a forum, shouldn't you be able to tell the difference between muscle soreness and injury?
     
  4. EchoBoomer

    EchoBoomer Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    I fink your freaky...
    First of all you need to learn the difference between muscle, connective tisse, and skeletal pain. Then injury from soreness. Once you have done this, when you are sore you work through it. This will raise your work capacity.

    There is no such thing as "overtraining", just "undertrained". If you go train at a camp in thailand and then tell your coach, "I think I'm overtraining", your going to get laughed out of the gym.

    Not trying to be a dick, I just hate that term.
     
  5. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    9
    (Face hits palm)

    Of course there is such thing as over training!!! The body can only handle so much stress at one time. I wouldn't ask a 300lb kid to run 20 miles a day. He wouldn't be able to handle it. You can overtrain by A. Taking on too much stress for your body in one sitting. B. Not giving your body time to recover. Physiological improvements occur due to stimulus caused by minor tissue damage, such as DOMS in muscles and micro breaks in bones. If you train your hardest every day, the body never has time to heal these (which leads to bigger muscles and stronger bones). Elite athletes train almost every day, but they have easy days and hard days. The easy days are meant to allow for recovery.

    If you tell your thai coaches you are overtraining, they are probably laughing at you because you are so out of shape. If they are having you work through injury or not giving you time to recover, then they are just not being smart coaches.
     
  6. kinchan

    kinchan Guest

    i wouldn't worry about over training in your position.

    a friends father told me that when you over train, you lose the desire to train and have a decrease in your performance.

    obviously when you come back after a few months you need to take it a bit easier at the beginning, ie only 3 times training/week, and increase it after 1-2 weeks.
     
  7. EchoBoomer

    EchoBoomer Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    I fink your freaky...
    Q&A

    I want to know what you think about this.
     
  8. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    9
    I think that while the author is right that adaptations occur neurologically and hormonally as well as in the muscles, he only addressed one aspect of overtraining. According ot the author, the feeling of overtraining is psychologically induced by the brain's inability to produce seratonin at the levels required for continuous exercise. While this may be true, it says nothing about the fact that research has shown quite conclusively that strenuous exercise creates microtears in the myofibrils (the protein strands in muscle cells responsible for contraction) of muscles, which stimulates muscle hypertrophy (swelling of the muscle cell with myofibrils). There has been shown to be a direct although not linear relationship between hypertrophy and force producing capabilities, and between the tears in the myofibrils and hypertophy. This makes sense as packing muscle cells with more contractile units allows for stronger contraction. Mind you these adaptations are occuring alongside the neurological adaptations, and it is no surprise that these adaptations work synergistically to produce greater results.

    Finally, coming back to overtraining. Research has shown, quite conclusively, that a periodized training program which involves microperiods (week long sessions), which include recovery days, produce greater effects in adaptation ranging from 25-50% greater than programs which include no recovery days. These recovery days are associated with the fixing of these microtears, and greater rates of neurological adaptation and hypertrophy. It has also been shown that exercises of high intensity can lead to injury if the individual is not fit enough for the exercise. If there was no such thing as overtraining, than recovery would not be incorporated into the training regimes of most elite level athletes (such as olympic athletes). The coaches of these athletes are being payed a lot of money to produce the best athletes, and they are certainly up on their research.

    I think the author focused too hard on what he knew to the exclusion of looking at the body as a multifaceted machine. Also, upon thinking about it for a second, what he was really describing is probably the body's defense against overtraining. Seratonin depletion leads to lack of drive to train. Depletion occurs due to training at levels the body is not used to. Thus one way to prevent the body from training itself into injury is to remove the drive (run out of seratonin- or make seratonin a limiting factor in training).
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2010
  9. NUNZIO

    NUNZIO White Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome
    •Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
    •Mild leg soreness, general aches and pains
    •Pain in muscles and joints
    •Sudden drop in performance
    •Insomnia
    •Headaches
    •Decreased immunity (increased number of colds, and sore throats)
    •Decrease in training capacity / intensity
    •Moodiness and irritability
    •Depression
    •Loss of enthusiasm for the sport
    •Decreased appetite
    •Increased incidence of injuries.
    •A compulsive need to exercise

    Recognizing Overtraining Syndrome
    There are several ways you can objectively measure some signs of overtraining. One is by documenting your heart rates over time. Track your aerobic heart rate at a specific exercise intensities and speed throughout your training and write it down. If your pace starts to slow, your resting heart rate increases and you experience other symptoms, you may heading into overtraining syndrome.
    You can also track your resting heart rate each morning. Any marked increase from the norm may indicated that you aren't fully recovered.

    Another way to test recover to use something called the orthostatic heart rate test, developed by Heikki Rusko while working with cross country skiers. To obtain this measurement:

    •Lay down and rest comfortably for 10 minutes the same time each day (morning is best).
    •At the end of 10 minutes, record your heart rate in beats per minute.
    •Then stand up
    •After 15 seconds, take a second heart rate in beats per minute.
    •After 90 seconds, take a third heart rate in beats per minute.
    •After 120 seconds, take a fourth heart rate in beats per minute.
    Well rested athletes will show a consistent heart rate between measurements, but Rusko found a marked increase (10 beats/minutes or more) in the 120 second-post-standing measurement of athletes on the verge of overtraining. Such a change may indicate that you have not recovered from a previous workout, are fatigued, or otherwise stressed and it may be helpful to reduce training or rest another day before performing another workout.

    A training log that includes a note about how your feel each day can help you notice downward trends and decreased enthusiasm. It's important to listen to your body signals and rest when you feel tired.

    You can also ask those around you if they think you are exercising too much.

    While there are many proposed ways to objectively test for overtraining, the most accurate and sensitive measurements are psychological signs and symptoms and changes in an athlete's mental state. Decreased positive feelings for sports and increased negative feelings, such as depression, anger, fatigue, and irritability often appear after a few days of intensive overtraining. Studies have found increased ratings of perceived exertion during exercise after only three days of overload.


    How to Treat Overtraining Syndrome
    If you suspect you are overtraining, start with the following:
    •Rest and Recover. Reduce or stop exercise and allow yourself a few days of rest.
    •Hydrate, Drink plenty of fluids and alter your diet if necessary.
    •Get a sports massage. This may help relax you mentally and physically.
    •Begin Cross Training. This often helps athletes who are overworking certain muscles or suffering from mental fatigue.
    Research on overtraining syndrome shows getting adequate rest is the primary treatment plan. New evidence indicating that low levels of exercise, or active recovery, during the rest period speeds recovery, and Moderate exercise increases immunity.

    Total recovery from overtraining can take several weeks and should include proper nutrition and stress reduction.

    How to Prevent Overtraining Syndrome
    It's often hard to predict overtraining because every athlete responds differently to certain training routines. It is important, however, to vary training through the year and schedule in significant rest time.
     
  10. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    9
    ^Plus 1. Although some of this applies more to athletes performing sports more aerobic than fighting.
     
  11. Sok Ti

    Sok Ti White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    5
    It sounds like you have cancer of the arms. You should go see a doctor right away.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.