Sooooo Martin Berkhan...

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Tycho Brah, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. Tycho Brah

    Tycho Brah Zero Shift Belt Platinum Member

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    Haven't followed much of the dude's writing since I was into IF a while back, although I have heard stories about social media corrupting his mind and making him crazy (or, at the very least, acting as an outlet for his craziness).

    Looks like he's had about enough and is on the way out: http://www.leangains.com/2013/01/consequence-and-clarity.html

    This line in particular was meaningful for me:

    He may not have done it for the lulz, but they were had, and I think we should be thankful. Also if anyone knows any further details about what's going on with him please chime in.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    I saw that yesterday by chance. I think it may have popped up on my fb feed or something.

    Its too bad. I think he is just sick of the BS, and the fact that IF is becoming a fad diet but in terrible ways. He alludes to some things that happened but isn't very specific.
     
  3. SmashPassSubmit

    SmashPassSubmit White Belt

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    I've followed him on fb since I started doing IF in July. A few weeks back, maybe a month and a half, he got into a really intense argument with another nutrition writer/scientist/whatever then seemed to have lost his shit when the other guy stopped responding. The past week and half he's really gone off the deep end. I remember on New Years Eve or day he posted something to the affect of "IF is just a means to an end for me" and it really jumped out to me. It pains me to see someone who had some really well researched and helpful articles go this way but it is what it is.
     
  4. Pathogenic

    Pathogenic Wo Cao Ni Ma

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    He's always been a nutcase, but his jimmies have been irreparably rustled as of late. I think the fact that he ended up having to wade in with the big boys in the field after his method of IF became mainstream made him rethink what he was doing a bit. You can only handle so many arguments with Lyle McDonald and Anthony Colpo before you end up spending your entire day looking for relevant rebuttal material.

    Smash's story is quite interesting as well.
     
  5. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    What kind of arguments was he getting into?

    I thought it was the other way around - quacks that were passing off water fasts and such as healthy due to the IF craze.

    So it was respected guys like Lyle that called him out? More info would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  6. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    I didn't see that either. Where/when/with whom was that?
     
  7. Tycho Brah

    Tycho Brah Zero Shift Belt Platinum Member

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    Lol @ water fasts.

    I know Martin had some small-time beef with Lyle (not Alan as far as I know, although they did have informal disagreements about some research iirc) for covering similar ideas in one of his books. That's kinda just based on rumours though, especially since Martin is notoriously vague with the details.

    He got chirpy with Layne on twitter one time (hot damn, pun not intended but it's staying), which was amusing.

    I think that Martin's biggest problem is his inability to understand that people interpreting data differently from him don't necessarily have malevolent intentions. If he actually took a more realistic perspective on the industry he might realize that it's really not at all focused on him and that he's only contributing to a growing body of knowledge that still needs to be processed on so many levels. At least then he wouldn't take shit so personally. Sometimes he sounds like a legit conspiracy theorist, which is hilarious given the range of his expertise. He does make some interesting points though.

    And write your damn book already.
     
  8. Butler

    Butler Orange Belt

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    He's clearly a very bright bloke - and a touch narcissistic and egotistical with it.

    I don't mind ego in moderation as long as people can back it up with competence and, frankly, he can.

    And generally speaking I think he has a point. In fact, one of the reasons I got into nutrition was because of all the bullshit, and I'm not ashamed to say that I see him as one of its most prolific adversaries.

    I think he needs to take a step back, man the fuck up, and carry on doing what he does best and stop letting what everyone else is doing get to him.
     
  9. Pathogenic

    Pathogenic Wo Cao Ni Ma

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    He and Lyle had arguments on his forum and through e-mail, I guess. They are still civil toward each other, but Berkhan no longer posts on Lyle's forum. I guess Lyle questioned why people would do Leangains to improve their body composition when there are better methods (mainly Lyle's, which are actually better).

    I remember Anthony Colpo wrote a piece on extreme IFing, and Berkhan went off the deep end in a series of posts to him. The funny thing is that Colpo had no idea who Berkhan was when he wrote the original article, and never mentioned him or Leangains once. I can't find Berkhan's response on his site anymore, but Colpo's is still up (with snippets from Berkhan's rebuttal):http://anthonycolpo.com/intermittent-fasting-and-the-crazed-rantings-of-martin-berkhan/

    The dude just can't take criticism. I think part of his problem is that his good marketing skills came into conflict with actual science when it comes to body composition-related stuff. IFing has lots of benefits for general health, but it's the calorie/macro cycling aspect of his program, not fasting, that has the most impact on calorie partitioning and such. This inability to distinguish which parts of his program worked caused him to get tremendously confused and butt hurt when people called him out about the fasting part in particular.
     
  10. Pathogenic

    Pathogenic Wo Cao Ni Ma

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    Solid perspective. I agree.
     
  11. Seriously-Dead

    Seriously-Dead wubbalubbadubdub

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    I definitely disagree with that. Although the studies (Varady, Stote) that used body composition used inadequate techniques (Bio-elec) that doesn't give you the validity to conclude that the fasting doesn't have an effect on body composition. Considering FFAs, glycerol, and adiponectin are increased with fasting - while diurnal leptin and insulin exposure maintains the same area of exposure compared to ad lib, I think it's likely that fasting has positive impacts on body composition for those who respond well to it. I think the clinical evidence for calorie and macro cycling is even more absent than fasting research, which is saying a lot because there's only about 6-7 studies on IF -- but I'll admit I've done almost zero research on macro/calorie cycling so I may have missed important clinical studies.
     
  12. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Interesting.

    Just from my own, very basic knowledge I've advised friends that asked about IF to do more of an ESE style rather than leangains until they got relatively lean.

    The reasoning was that leangains was a more advanced protocol that did rely on macro and carb cycling to get actually lean. Berkhan even says this himself, though perhaps not so succinctly.

    Lyle's methods rely heavily on macro cycling, don't they? Combining IF + macro cycling seems to have a synergistic effect so I guess you're right - it comes to do Berkhan's inability to take criticism unfortunately.
     
  13. mtruitt76

    mtruitt76 Purple Belt

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    If I wasn't being lazy right now I would did up the link, but Lyle theorized that one of the main benefits of IF was diet adherence which I tend to agree with. A very big part of losing weight and getting lean is being consistent with your diet. Based on peoples response to the diet, which can be almost cultist, IFing seems to take the chore and forced will power aspect out of dieting.
     
  14. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    Colpo's gotten into "it" with a few people online. Fred Hahn, Harley "Durianrider" Johnstone, some other vegan dude called 'Plant Positive' etc.
     
  15. Fedorgasm

    Fedorgasm Silver Belt

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    I'm new to IF. Who is Lyle? Does he have a book? Or can you at least give me his full name so I can google?
     
  16. Cygnus-X

    Cygnus-X Red Belt

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    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/
     
  17. Tycho Brah

    Tycho Brah Zero Shift Belt Platinum Member

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  18. PhelpsMMA

    PhelpsMMA Orange Belt

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    Isn't the main benefit of IF being able to consistently lose weight and maintain at very low bodyfat levels, whereas simple calorie restriction leads to lethargy and reduced testosterone, leptin etc and higher risk of catabolism. I thought the whole idea was IF gives the benefits of standard bodybuilding calorie cycling eg 3 days low calorie and 1 high calorie refeed day, but in a 24 hour period?
     
  19. mtruitt76

    mtruitt76 Purple Belt

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    Many people believe there is something more to IF than just adherence, but there currently isn't any proof that I currently know of which shows suprerior results with IF vs a standard eating pattern. Some people tend to get pretty fanatical about IF and I would venture that they may very well believe that there is something "more" to IF.
     
  20. PhelpsMMA

    PhelpsMMA Orange Belt

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    I'm not talking about anything special or magical just that major benefits are:

    Problem - Calorie restriction causes changes in hormone levels to reduce activity and body temperature, maybe cause the body to eat muscle despite having fat reserves, commonly spouted as 'going into starvation mode and destroying your metabolism'.
    Solution - Regularly refeed high calorie and carb meals or days to stimulate hormone levels back to a health level. IF appears to do this in a shorter time frame without the negative effects during the low calorie period, as its less than a day.

    Problem - Dieting leads to muscle loss as well as fat loss, especially at low fat levels
    Solution - Fasting makes the body produce catecholamines that are anti-catabolic and allow the body to mobilize fat more easily, which might otherwise not happen on a drip-feed of calories throughout the day.

    Both of those are mainly concerns for in-shape individuals so I would say the benefits compared to regular dieting in terms of fat loss will be more significant for them than the general masses. However the protocols and convenience should be more beneficially for everyone, especially the 'Ive not eaten since breakfast, that was 4 hours ago, I'm going to pass out!' crowd.
     

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