Sonny Liston vs Deontay Wilder

Yacob

Yacob

Bill Joe Sanders can kiss my wrinkly nutsack
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The Sonny that beat the shit out of Patterson vs current Wilder

Who wins

I like Listons chances. Relatively ballpark in power but Liston had better pure boxing
 
Deontay wins. Speed, power, and an uncontrollable style. Liston had more success against methodical fighters whose styles his jab could pick apart. Theres a chance he gets off to jabbing early and throws Wilder's timing off completely. But the chances of him getting knocked out from 2.5 feet away are higher.
 
Yacob said:
The Sonny that beat the shit out of Patterson vs current Wilder

Who wins

I like Listons chances. Relatively ballpark in power but Liston had better pure boxing
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Whats the AV from?
Ive seen it a couple times. Whats it about
 
I’d take Liston.
The best version of Liston had a great chin, a great jab, fast hands and very good power. Forget the dive he took in the second Ali fight, he’s better than Wilder in every area. Also, unlike the guys who have managed to hurt Wilder, Liston would finish him if he hurt him.
That said, Wilder has that knock um dead power that can surface at any time against anyone. I’d still take Liston 70/30.
 
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Wilder has a chance, as always. But Liston's jab, reach and high hands don't make his chin the best landing site for the kiss of death. I think Liston wins this more often than not.
 
Liston's jab will give Deontay problems. But I think ultimately he's getting hit with that right hand and going down for the count. Deontay by KO.
 
DeJulez said:
Whats the AV from?
Ive seen it a couple times. Whats it about
Click to expand...
Elliot offen

It's my original av from here and other forums over the years
 
Liston kills Wilder, Jesus Christ, what the fuck he isn't Breazeale or Malik Scott, he isn't going down, he was a better athlete than Wilder is, and would have completely beaten the breaks off Wilder and jabbed him into Oblivion. I'm a Wilder fan and believer, but he's been in tough and almost finished by far lesser than Liston. He's thriving in a weaker era. Wilder KOd or TKOd in 4 rounds or less. People think because Ali was too fast for Liston that Liston was slow or not an agile monster, no way no how.
 
Sinister said:
Deontay wins. Speed, power, and an uncontrollable style. Liston had more success against methodical fighters whose styles his jab could pick apart. Theres a chance he gets off to jabbing early and throws Wilder's timing off completely. But the chances of him getting knocked out from 2.5 feet away are higher.
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Nah, Liston was accurate, a good technician, and the bully that would have wiped his ass with today's pool of HWs, he wouldn't have gone down off the first combination, and he would have gotten Deontay outta there quickly if he thought Wilder had any chance of KOing or hurting him. King Kong, Fury, and Stiverne could get off the canvas, but Liston is dead off a punch from 2.5 feet away, sure.
 
borntoloseNOT said:
Nah, Liston was accurate, a good technician, and the bully that would have wiped his ass with today's pool of HWs, he wouldn't have gone down off the first combination, and he would have gotten Deontay outta there quickly if he thought Wilder had any chance of KOing or hurting him. King Kong, Fury, and Stiverne could get off the canvas, but Liston is dead off a punch from 2.5 feet away, sure.
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Nah, you're just romanticizing. I work in Sonny Liston's home gym, you're not going to tell me anything about the guy. And you can shit on Wilder's opposition all you want, but Liston didnt have much experience being DRAMATICALLY undersized and out-gunned. You mofos like to act like you're not looking at what you're looking at with Wilder, but hes a guy who has ONLY had trouble with skilled boxers who also have a punch, and aren't much smaller than he is. Furthermore, to get a DRAW against him Tyson Fury had to get knocked out in the process. That's how dominant the guy is, the only two guys who ever saw the final bell with him both were on their ass, and the one that was closest to winning was OUT. Stiverne got up, sure Wilder actually boxed in that fight proving he has more than one dimension. Then what happened to Stiverne? He got murked in less than 3 minutes. Lol Ortiz got up? Yeah, then got put back down. And this was a world level amateur and Pro. Wilder was never "almost finished" either. If you think stumbled and having to buy time is "almost finished" then you have a weird definition of that.

Sonny was a great fighter, in a bygone era. He was tough, not invulnerable. And Wilder is no neophyte, he fights extremely similar to Breland, who does most of his technical training.

Sorry man, anyone around here will tell you about my knowledge of old school boxing, but no one dominates Wilder or gets out of a fight with him not hitting the deck. And the thing with a guy like Sonny is if you drop him, give him the impression hes overmatched, he's likely to fold. Wilder would rather die in the ring. It's cool to love a fighter like Liston, I get it. But it's not cool to act like the dude didnt have any flaws.
 
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Sinister said:
Nah, you're just romanticizing. I work in Sonny Liston's home gym, you're not going to tell me anything about the guy. And you can shit on Wilder's opposition all you want, but Liston didnt have much experience being DRAMATICALLY undersized and out-gunned. You mofos like to act like you're not looking at what you're looking at with Wilder, but hes a guy who has ONLY had trouble with skilled boxers who also have a punch, and aren't much smaller than he is. Furthermore, to get a DRAW against him Tyson Fury had to get knocked out in the process. That's how dominant the guy is, the only two guys who ever saw the final bell with him both were on their ass, and the one that was closest to winning was OUT. Stiverne got up, sure Wilder actually boxed in that fight proving he has more than one dimension. Then what happened to Stiverne? He got murked in less than 3 minutes. Lol Ortiz got up? Yeah, then got put back down. And this was a world level amateur and Pro. Wilder was never "almost finished" either. If you think stumbled and having to buy time is "almost finished" then you have a weird definition of that.

Sonny was a great fighter, in a bygone era. He was tough, not invulnerable. And Wilder is no neophyte, he fights extremely similar to Breland, who does most of his technical training.

Sorry man, anyone around here will tell you about my knowledge of old school boxing, but no one dominates Wilder or gets out of a fight with him not hitting the deck. And the thing with a guy like Sonny is if you drop him, give him the impression hes overmatched, he's likely to fold. Wilder would rather die in the ring. It's cool to love a fighter like Liston, I get it. But it's not cool to act like the dude didnt have any flaws.
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Thanks for the response, my friend. IDK, though, Liston withstood some heavy fire and prevailed. I'm a big Wilder fan, and hope he unifies, but Liston in my eyes would be too much. Agree Wilder would rather die in the ring, love him for it, and the worst part of these discussions is we will never know! Here's hoping and crossing my fingers Wilder unifies and at least becomes the biggest name in boxing as the HW King of this generation.

I'd be thrilled to know more about Sonny as he's my favorite name in boxing history and you reside in his gym, if you had more insights or stuff you think I couldn't find in media about him, please share one day.
 
Sinister said:
Nah, you're just romanticizing. I work in Sonny Liston's home gym, you're not going to tell me anything about the guy. And you can shit on Wilder's opposition all you want, but Liston didnt have much experience being DRAMATICALLY undersized and out-gunned. You mofos like to act like you're not looking at what you're looking at with Wilder, but hes a guy who has ONLY had trouble with skilled boxers who also have a punch, and aren't much smaller than he is. Furthermore, to get a DRAW against him Tyson Fury had to get knocked out in the process. That's how dominant the guy is, the only two guys who ever saw the final bell with him both were on their ass, and the one that was closest to winning was OUT. Stiverne got up, sure Wilder actually boxed in that fight proving he has more than one dimension. Then what happened to Stiverne? He got murked in less than 3 minutes. Lol Ortiz got up? Yeah, then got put back down. And this was a world level amateur and Pro. Wilder was never "almost finished" either. If you think stumbled and having to buy time is "almost finished" then you have a weird definition of that.

Sonny was a great fighter, in a bygone era. He was tough, not invulnerable. And Wilder is no neophyte, he fights extremely similar to Breland, who does most of his technical training.

Sorry man, anyone around here will tell you about my knowledge of old school boxing, but no one dominates Wilder or gets out of a fight with him not hitting the deck. And the thing with a guy like Sonny is if you drop him, give him the impression hes overmatched, he's likely to fold. Wilder would rather die in the ring. It's cool to love a fighter like Liston, I get it. But it's not cool to act like the dude didnt have any flaws.
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Listons reach is longer than Deontays

And Sonny definitely had better boxing ability. And i don't even know if the power was that far apart. Liston was legitimately good.
 
borntoloseNOT said:
Thanks for the response, my friend. IDK, though, Liston withstood some heavy fire and prevailed. I'm a big Wilder fan, and hope he unifies, but Liston in my eyes would be too much. Agree Wilder would rather die in the ring, love him for it, and the worst part of these discussions is we will never know! Here's hoping and crossing my fingers Wilder unifies and at least becomes the biggest name in boxing as the HW King of this generation.

I'd be thrilled to know more about Sonny as he's my favorite name in boxing history and you reside in his gym, if you had more insights or stuff you think I couldn't find in media about him, please share one day.
Click to expand...

Its not easy to make this kind of assessment, but we're looking at something different with Wilder. Hes no standard-issue heavyweight. Theres heavy firepower, then there's him. Hes big, strong, surprisingly quick, has extremely good resolve and recovery, and then theres KO power in both hands. Hes never out of shape. Hes just truly a different kind of athlete and the answer to the question: "what if the kind of guys who joined the NBA became heavyweight fighters?"

Liston was a great fighter, for sure, but I just feel like the vulnerabilities he had play right into Wilder's hands. Big bully meets a bigger, stronger, faster guy who isnt afraid in any way.

Yacob said:
Listons reach is longer than Deontays

And Sonny definitely had better boxing ability. And i don't even know if the power was that far apart. Liston was legitimately good.
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Sonny has 1 inch more of reach, but he wasnt an outside fighter. He liked to pressure with a bit of bump room. Again I'm not downplaying Liston, just saying that nothing he does specifically undercuts everything Wilder is good at, except his use of the jab. And hey that might do it, but you know what's a good counter to a great jab? Bomb right hand over the top.
 
I dunno.

Its an interesting fight. Liston has a lot of tools and was a better fighter

I am not sure if that stops Wilder from knocking him out though
 
Wilder's killer instinct, KO power, and heart/will > Sonny's bullying intimidation and skill.

It's as simple as that IMO.
 
Liston beats him up and makes him look stupid and then gets ktfo at some point. Like most of Wilders fights, but probably takes more damage than usual. Dont heavily favor either.
 
i have to favor liston on technique & variety but i think that’s the case for a lot of today’s HW’s too and idk if they beat wilder either. wilder has a homing device on that right hand and it detonates on everybody
 
Sinister said:
Its not easy to make this kind of assessment, but we're looking at something different with Wilder. Hes no standard-issue heavyweight. Theres heavy firepower, then there's him. Hes big, strong, surprisingly quick, has extremely good resolve and recovery, and then theres KO power in both hands. Hes never out of shape. Hes just truly a different kind of athlete and the answer to the question: "what if the kind of guys who joined the NBA became heavyweight fighters?"

Liston was a great fighter, for sure, but I just feel like the vulnerabilities he had play right into Wilder's hands. Big bully meets a bigger, stronger, faster guy who isnt afraid in any way.



Sonny has 1 inch more of reach, but he wasnt an outside fighter. He liked to pressure with a bit of bump room. Again I'm not downplaying Liston, just saying that nothing he does specifically undercuts everything Wilder is good at, except his use of the jab. And hey that might do it, but you know what's a good counter to a great jab? Bomb right hand over the top.
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If Liston could step to Foreman in sparring is it not reasonable he could handle Wilder's power albeit barely? Do you not think a young Foremans firepower is in the same realm as Wilders and if not who is comprable to Wilder Heavyweight or not?

On the other hand Ali a decent puncher but definitely no Wilder knocked Liston down with a punch that didn't seem that powerful when he overextended on a jab (Liston had a tendency of doing this which plays into Wilders hands with the right hand over the jab).
 
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