Sonny Liston destroying Floyd Patterson on the inside

Liston looks flawed as hell with his telegraphed jab, that's slow and he makes serious mistakes by leaving his arm out after jabbing and his wide punches but his strength is his power and he has no head movement and any fighters like Tyson Holyfied Lennox and Riddick Bowe as well as the others would seriously hurt him especially on the inside with their short hooks going against his wide slow telegraphed punches.

No wonder Ali destroyed him easily and Frasier Big Gorge Foreman and others, would've destroyed him easily, Liston was extremely overrated, but powerful.
 
borntoloseNOT said:
Yeah. Because Patterson was just handed the title and never faced or beat any genuine HWs along the way to facing Liston, that was untreaded water for him. There was a rule you could only fight guys the same exact size and build as you in the HW division back then, it's important to always remember that.

Liston would have beaten most of the best HWs of last 30 years. It's not a romanticism.
Click to expand...
Watch from 2:19 to 2:45.
Liston stares down Floyd as Floyd never looks up.
That intimidation factor.
@mozfonky
@sweetviolenturg
@Seano
 
tekkennlee said:
Liston looks flawed as hell with his telegraphed jab, that's slow and he makes serious mistakes by leaving his arm out after jabbing and his wide punches but his strength is his power and he has no head movement and any fighters like Tyson Holyfied Lennox and Riddick Bowe as well as the others would seriously hurt him especially on the inside with their short hooks going against his wide slow telegraphed punches.

No wonder Ali destroyed him easily and Frasier Big Gorge Foreman and others, would've destroyed him easily, Liston was extremely overrated, but powerful.
Click to expand...

I think his jab was pretty awesome... He steps in and it comes out pretty fast & stinging.
Don't get me wrong, I think he was an unusually talented heavyweight, but he did whoop up on a lot of light-heavyweights / cruiserweights, and the few actual heavyweights were mostly pub brawlers. Cleveland Williams was an exception where Sonny showed his full skill.

He was surprised when he stood in the ring face-to-face with Cassius Clay, because Clay was towering him and had a pretty good frame - a real heavyweight. Then the ring bells, and guess what - Clay is also a superb athlete, can fight and is tough as nails. Liston was certain that he's just a clown who would talk the talk, but couldn't walk the walk. And it wasn't the first time Liston resorted to illegal means... He had a tendency to do that when things didn't go his way, which shows a lack of fighting spirit.

I just think Sonny would have his hands full with Ray Mercer and Shannon Briggs, two olympics boxers who weighed more than 190 pounds... Lennox Lewis (taller, heavier and athletically more gifted than Sonny Liston) got into a competitive dog fight with Frank Bruno... I have no reason to think that Sonny would decapitate Bruno inside of 2-3 rounds... Maybe he would, maybe not.

In the 1980s there were severel 6'3 heavyweights who could jab and move (Tim Witherspoon, Carl Williams, Pinklon Thomas)... That just wasn't the case in Sonny's day.
 
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borntoloseNOT said:
Yeah. Because Patterson was just handed the title and never faced or beat any genuine HWs along the way to facing Liston, that was untreaded water for him. There was a rule you could only fight guys the same exact size and build as you in the HW division back then, it's important to always remember that.

Liston would have beaten most of the best HWs of last 30 years. It's not a romanticism.
Click to expand...

Johansson was a very handy 21-0 career heavyweight when Patterson avenged his loss to him, not once, but twice.

As for there being a rule you could 'only fight guys the same exact size and build as you in the HW division back then', when do you claim that rule was introduced and how long was it in place? There are plenty of examples before, since and probably at the same time, that contradict that theory.
 
DeJulez said:
Watch from 2:19 to 2:45.
Liston stares down Floyd as Floyd never looks up.
That intimidation factor.
@mozfonky
@sweetviolenturg
@Seano
Click to expand...


Floyd never looked up though. D'Amato had instilled into him, to look at the opponent's chest and feet, to get a better sense of what kind of punches would be coming. Patterson said that the only time he looked a man in the eyes, is when he fought Henry Cooper, because he was afraid the guy would start bleeding all over the ring.

Floyd knocked his lights out and tried to pick Cooper up while he was hitting the floor.



Patterson was scary good for a 180-190 pounder but he was a man without a weight division. For his size he had great power, enough to hurt fighters who outweighed him by 20-30 pounds. Against opponents of his own size, he basically KTFO all of them, including Archie Moore, Cooper, Johansson.

Despite the talk of Patterson being intimidated by Liston, the guy was crazy enough to campaign for a third fight, and was pretty close to getting it, if not for Liston's decline. Old post-Ali Liston vs a rejuvenated Patterson who still hung around as a top contender would've been interesting, kind of like Foreman-Frazier II.
 
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Heath Robinson said:
Johansson was a very handy 21-0 career heavyweight when Patterson avenged his loss to him, not once, but twice.

As for there being a rule you could 'only fight guys the same exact size and build as you in the HW division back then', when do you claim that rule was introduced and how long was it in place? There are plenty of examples before, since and probably at the same time, that contradict that theory.
Click to expand...
It was sarcasm.
 
DeJulez said:
Its not about Floyd. Its about Listons eyes and stare that shows whats about to happen.
Click to expand...

For sure he was looking to crush him. Never took his eyes off him. A lot of anguish and pent-up frustration got unleashed on Patterson that night.

Patterson could be a weird guy, for a championship level boxer. He had a fake beard that he used to sneak away from his fights unnoticed. When asked what he sincerely wanted the most, he answered that he just wanted to be one of the guys at the bars drinking beer while watching boxing. Never really cared for the money or the fame, he just liked boxing.

Liston's stare probably did disturb him. But he never looked anybody in the eyes, not even the most hapless bums that he fought.

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borntoloseNOT said:
Yeah. Because Patterson was just handed the title and never faced or beat any genuine HWs along the way to facing Liston, that was untreaded water for him. There was a rule you could only fight guys the same exact size and build as you in the HW division back then, it's important to always remember that.

Liston would have beaten most of the best HWs of last 30 years. It's not a romanticism.
Click to expand...
Honestly never heard of that rule ? Guess Primo carnera would’ve had to defend his title by masturbating
 
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defjaam said:
I think his jab was pretty awesome... He steps in and it comes out pretty fast & stinging.
Don't get me wrong, I think he was an unusually talented heavyweight, but he did whoop up on a lot of light-heavyweights / cruiserweights, and the few actual heavyweights were mostly pub brawlers. Cleveland Williams was an exception where Sonny showed his full skill.

He was surprised when he stood in the ring face-to-face with Cassius Clay, because Clay was towering him and had a pretty good frame - a real heavyweight. Then the ring bells, and guess what - Clay is also a superb athlete, can fight and is tough as nails. Liston was certain that he's just a clown who would talk the talk, but couldn't walk the walk. And it wasn't the first time Liston resorted to illegal means... He had a tendency to do that when things didn't go his way, which shows a lack of fighting spirit.

I just think Sonny would have his hands full with Ray Mercer and Shannon Briggs, two olympics boxers who weighed more than 190 pounds... Lennox Lewis (taller, heavier and athletically more gifted than Sonny Liston) got into a competitive dog fight with Frank Bruno... I have no reason to think that Sonny would decapitate Bruno inside of 2-3 rounds... Maybe he would, maybe not.

In the 1980s there were severel 6'3 heavyweights who could jab and move (Tim Witherspoon, Carl Williams, Pinklon Thomas)... That just wasn't the case in Sonny's day.
Click to expand...
Liston would kill Briggs ....are you being serious or just playing ?
 
r-harper-1 said:
Honestly never heard of that rule ? Guess Primo carnera would’ve had to defend his title by masturbating
Click to expand...
Not sure how this post was taken seriously by so many when the first sentence was he was just handed the title, lol, guess I need to stop being facetious but I found the excuse making for Patterson because of size ridiculous. Liston was a monster of a fighter. It's not a rose tinted opinion, it's fact. He was going to fuck Floyd up regardless of size, he had his number, just like Ali had his.
 
borntoloseNOT said:
Not sure how this post was taken seriously by so many when the first sentence was he was just handed the title, lol, guess I need to stop being facetious but I found the excuse making for Patterson because of size ridiculous. Liston was a monster of a fighter. It's not a rose tinted opinion, it's fact. He was going to fuck Floyd up regardless of size, he had his number, just like Ali had his.
Click to expand...

It was generally not a good idea to come after Liston.

Even an ancient Liston could throw some serious bombs:



They used to have some ridiculous weight differences in the old days. Dempsey gave up almost 60 pounds to Jess Willard. Tommy Loughran gave up an astonishing 84 pounds to Primo Carnera.

Liston outweighing Patterson by 20 pounds wasn't that major, at the end of the day. Fury outweighed Wilder by a lot more than that.

Obviously Liston's dimensions and frame were much bigger than Patterson's though. Ideally, Patterson should have probably fought at 175.
 
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