Sonnen: Judo isn't effective in MMA

Funny how people mention BJJ as a legit base but dismiss Judo. Do you bums know BJJ derived from Judo? There's a word for ground-techniques in Japanese, it's called Ne Waza. I suggest you jabronis do a little research on both arts first.
 
From what I've heard, the younger generations are mainly being taught a more watered down sport version instead. Like Ronda was part of the last generation to really learn submissions and stuff. And even at the time, she was really a specialist and wasn't even given time to work, so she had to learn to be explosive with her submissions.

As someone who has done judo for years (not anymore due injuries), you are trained in all of it because at some point you are going to be tested for your black belt and you have to know all of the Kodokan techniques and be able to demonstrate them at a black belt level. Right-handed and left-handed, if they ask. So you still better be pretty proficient with those lower body reaps in case they ask to see them for the Dan grading.

Black belts are not given out in your own dojo but by Kodokan representatives.

Eliminating lower body reaps (single, double, ankle techniques) from competition doesn't mean they aren't practiced or even used in all competitions. Rules were sketchy that you could still use them, but they cannot be the first attack -- meaning that they could be used as second part of a combination attack.

The lower body techniques were banned because wrestlers would sign up to do judo and that is all they would do. So at the lower levels (white and yellow belt) they are not experienced enough to defend that as they are working on other techniques and do not have a feel for the "gentle way." One of the guys at our club won the bronze or silver medal in wrestling for the Ontario championships in his senior year of high school. He was successful until he went against brown and black belts and tried to be wrestler in a gi. As soon as they saw what he was it was like they went, "oh, I know how to stop this" and they did.

My head sensei who is an accredited international ref and has refereed all over the world, would tell us how it will come full circle and the rules will change eventually to allow lower body reaps (single and double leg, ankle picks) back in at some point because they have done it before. Even still, you can find tournaments that will allow them by local clubs occasionally.

Rousey's mother would arm bar her to wake her up in the mornings growing up. That is why she got so good at them. Quite an alarm clock. But as far as time goes on the ground in competition, if you are not advancing your technique, you are stood up quickly.

Another sensei at my club competed against Ronda Rousey in an Ontario tournament years ago. She didn't lose by submission but was thrown for ippon, which ends the match (if you land on your back) about two or three minutes into the match. Rousey is more than an armbar assassin.

It's both funny and sad what short memories people have of Rousey's judo. Even the talking MMA heads don't even know anything about judo, because they can't tell the difference between something as simple as O-goshi (a hip throw) and harai goshi (a hip sweep). Or when Ronda would do a takedown/throw/trip a lot of times she is using multiple techniques at once to get her opponent to react to set up something else. I recall seeing her try about three or four techniques in just over a second or two to get her opponent on the ground from the clinch. I think the only commentator that ever really pointed that out was Pat Miletich on a Strikeforce show.
 
As someone who has done judo for years (not anymore due injuries), you are trained in all of it because at some point you are going to be tested for your black belt and you have to know all of the Kodokan techniques and be able to demonstrate them at a black belt level. Right-handed and left-handed, if they ask. So you still better be pretty proficient with those lower body reaps in case they ask to see them for the Dan grading.

Black belts are not given out in your own dojo but by Kodokan representatives.

Eliminating lower body reaps (single, double, ankle techniques) from competition doesn't mean they aren't practiced or even used in all competitions. Rules were sketchy that you could still use them, but they cannot be the first attack -- meaning that they could be used as second part of a combination attack.

The lower body techniques were banned because wrestlers would sign up to do judo and that is all they would do. So at the lower levels (white and yellow belt) they are not experienced enough to defend that as they are working on other techniques and do not have a feel for the "gentle way." One of the guys at our club won the bronze or silver medal in wrestling for the Ontario championships in his senior year of high school. He was successful until he went against brown and black belts and tried to be wrestler in a gi. As soon as they saw what he was it was like they went, "oh, I know how to stop this" and they did.

My head sensei who is an accredited international ref and has refereed all over the world, would tell us how it will come full circle and the rules will change eventually to allow lower body reaps (single and double leg, ankle picks) back in at some point because they have done it before. Even still, you can find tournaments that will allow them by local clubs occasionally.

Rousey's mother would arm bar her to wake her up in the mornings growing up. That is why she got so good at them. Quite an alarm clock. But as far as time goes on the ground in competition, if you are not advancing your technique, you are stood up quickly.

Another sensei at my club competed against Ronda Rousey in an Ontario tournament years ago. She didn't lose by submission but was thrown for ippon, which ends the match (if you land on your back) about two or three minutes into the match. Rousey is more than an armbar assassin.

It's both funny and sad what short memories people have of Rousey's judo. Even the talking MMA heads don't even know anything about judo, because they can't tell the difference between something as simple as O-goshi (a hip throw) and harai goshi (a hip sweep). Or when Ronda would do a takedown/throw/trip a lot of times she is using multiple techniques at once to get her opponent to react to set up something else. I recall seeing her try about three or four techniques in just over a second or two to get her opponent on the ground from the clinch. I think the only commentator that ever really pointed that out was Pat Miletich on a Strikeforce show.
Thanks for the insight. It's not that I thought Ronda was a one trick pony in judo, but still sort of a specialist. The armbars are what made her stand out at the highest level. But no, she obviously couldn't get an armbar every time. She could still win without them. I remember watching old footage of her in judo and she would get broken up while working on them. And I've also seen her win matches with throws. But this wasn't really fresh on my mind because it's been a while since I've seen those.
 
It's true. To be effective it requires good grips and in Judo grabbing a leg is illegal so any takedown is banned. You may hit a basic bitch hip toss on a housewife, but real fighters don't fall for that shit.

There are plenty of hip tosses scored in men's MMA too, not exclusive at all to WMMA. Nik Lentz uses them often among many others.
I do agree there are more successful sloppy head and arm throws in WMMA, but not so much in the top 10.
PVZ for example had a lot of success with her not-so-technical throws when facing lower opposition, but didn't work so well in her last few fights.
 
Fedors whole takedown game was judo, and he was quite successful with it....
 
Fedor had combat sambo which is a great base for MMA. He did some judo but it wasn't his primary thing. Judo is ok. It's mostly just throws and hip tosses. the other arts cover other aspects better. But for throws and hip tosses judo is the best.

According to Fedor's personal web site, he was equally in judo and combat sambo from age 12 on. He did enough judo to earn a master of sport in judo in it (a high honor in Russia), and to be on the Russian national judo team, and win medals in world cups (ie his judo credentials are better than Karo's, though not as good as Rousey's - and the best judo credit is for Yoshida, though he started MMA 10 years after winning his Olympic gold, so maybe that weakens it a bit).

What Fedor mainly used from his judo repetoire are leg techniques - ouchi gari and sasae tsurikomi ashi (ie inner reaping throw and body lock), apparently the same ones he used in his international judo career.

After starting MMA he gave up judo, but it was half of his training before starting MMA - that is, it was his co-primary thing.

Now you can argue that what people do before starting MMA isn't important, but its pointless to say Fedor wasn't a very serious judoka before starting MMA, given that his own website states how serious he was about judo.
 
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