Sonnen: Judo isn't effective in MMA

[MCS]

Lombard tossed Shields around, Fedor reigned, Yoshida had marginal success being one-dimensional (and tossed the best LHW in the world around as a pure Judoka), Ishii has mixed success, Kim's good, Karo did his thing and Ronda tossed her DNB's around for a while.

There are just very few high level Judokas in MMA, part of because it's a TMA eastern sport, but a million wrestlers, so there's a natural perception. The good thing with Judo is that it's already closer to MMA than pure wrestling, way more than Greco, so I don't really see Sonnen's point (other than bias towards his own sport).

 

[aokimasaru]

Judo has some uses during clinch like sweeps and hip toss.

 

[Threetrees]

Nope he started out as a Judoka and not even a very high level one, that's the technique he used to toss Chael.

Lets be realistic Sonnen just plays up a character to get attension of nationalistic dimwits, I doubt he believes the majority of what he says.

Maia was succesfull at MW
He's vastly more succesful at WW, where he's spent the past few years working hard on his wrestling and his single leg series is straight tout of a wrestling textbook at times
Also he lateral dropped Sonnen

But anyway, Shael is being hyperbolic to make a point - which is what sportscasters and analysts are prone to do. His point is still valid. Most people will agree that Maia found success in BJJ at a high level and carried that into MMA as his base - he didn't come in as a nearly pure Judoka like Rousey.

 

[MMonk]

You just proved his point.

Depends what are we talking about, does it work well purely or as an additive to a whole arsenal.
Very few pure judokas achieved smth.

F.E, JBJ uses some taekwondo kicks. But it doesn't mean it's effective.
Pettis had to add a lot of boxing and MT under Roufus to adapt his striking to MMA.

 

[DoofiTV]

He would know

/thread

 

[MCS]

Also a thing pro-Judo is the hip toss/trip continuously looking hard to defend even for top fighters. All those guys mentioned above basically get at least 1 hip toss every fight despite the opponent, which almost always means high side control, which shows how effective it is (and very exciting to watch as well).

 

[DoofiTV]

Pure boxers will do poorly in MMA. As will purer BJJ or pure Wrestling. It's MMA. There's still a lot left to be figured out, and the best fighters stylistically complement the best facets of their game.

 

[The Reed]

Although i agree that pure BJJ works weakly in MMA as well ( see Dean Lister, , fighters usually need wrestling, sambo, judo, to impose their grappling, cause everybody has TDD nowadays.

Dean Listers a really bad example of the point you're trying to make here, Lister has a wrestling and Sambo background as well as BJJ. The reason he had limited success in MMA probably has something to do with other factors probably something to do with his mentality.

Depends what are we talking about, does it work well purely or as an additive to a whole arsenal.
Very few pure judokas achieved smth.

Nobody who's a pure anything can achive much in MMA but yeah, I think a pure Judoka would fare worse than a pure BJJ guy or pure wrestler. Anyway the fact that great fighters can still take things from it shows that Chael is wrong or is just making a hyperbolic statement for attention.

 

[MMonk]

Dean Listers a really bad example of the point you're trying to make here, Lister has a wrestling and Sambo background as well as BJJ. The reason he had limited success in MMA probably has something to do with other factors probably something to do with his mentality.


Nobody who's a pure anything can achive much in MMA but yeah, I think a pure Judoka would fare worse than a pure BJJ guy or pure wrestler. Anyway the fact that great fighters can still take things from it shows that Chael is wrong or is just making a hyperbolic statement for attention.

It is hyperbolic if he says Judo doenst work at all.
Although reality proves it works worse than wrestling, sambo and bjj.
Peace.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Glad someone posted the gif of Maia Judo-tossing Sonnen into his doom.

Chael gonna Chael.

 

[ShadowOfDeath]

What's your opinion? Fedor was a Judoka who is highly successful in MMA, but then his main background is combat Sambo not Judo. So I don't know he can be the answer to Chael.

What do you think?

Chael is an idiot who refused to train BJJ and kept getting tapped from the guard. He isn't a great analyst just a good talker.
Now on the point: Many highly successful fighters have used a judo background or judo principles and techniques at a very high level and these include Fedor Emelianenko, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Demian Maia, Jacare Souza, Jon Jones (the trips and sweeps for instance) just to name a few. True that their "primary" discipline was something else, but its MMA. The russians i mentioned are judo medalists in national or continental competition and the brazilians have credited judo on interviews for their cage control and flow.
For a long time pure judo practitioners have not been in the MMA elite because there is a clear move for the best judokas which is olympic style competitions, only recently olympic wrestlers and judokas are truly seeing MMA as a viable post-olympic career. (note that most wrestlers in MMA are college lvl)

 

[SherdogGoat]

Khabib - Combat Sambo primarily but he is also a black belt in Judo

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

Also he lateral dropped Sonnen

That wasn't a lateral drop. That's a propping drawing foot sweep, sasae tsurikomi ashi.

 

[Ken's Sideburns]

Wow I can't believe this thread went this long without any mention of Karo Parisyan, with the exception of one poster above that made a quick reference. Karo's judo was sick, he landed gravity defining throws on Diego Sanchez and used a judo kimura technique against gsp that resulted in a takedown/sweep, same technique he used to tap out.

He even sang a stupid song about his judo throws being the best in the world post fight interview one time.

 

[Threetrees]

That wasn't a lateral drop. That's a propping drawing foot sweep, sasae tsurikomi ashi.

Was it? I'll take your word for it.
edit: Look at that, you're right. Hespect.

 

[ShadowOfDeath]

Maia is a beast, but he's a BJJ mastre first, who adds judo, wrestling , maybe even sambo to his arsenal.

He is primarily a BJJ guy with judo up close, most of his work on taking people down is judo. Its a very intelligent idea of training judo for the clinch and bjj for the ground. He adds wrestling and Sambo to a much lesser degree than judo.

 

[Clutch Kyrie]

I don't know why but Chael is always bitter towards people who destroy his numbers.

 

[Mattitude V1]

Nope he started out as a Judoka and not even a very high level one, that's the technique he used to toss Chael.

Lets be realistic Sonnen just plays up a character to get attension of nationalistic dimwits, I doubt he believes the majority of what he says.

I love how today you can just pretend someone didn't make a good point because you don't like them.

It's 1000% true that judo isn't a super effective base for MMA. All the fighters like Hector Lombard who are high level judoka, don't use it as their primary skill.

 

[MMonk]

Khabib - Combat Sambo primarily but he is also a black belt in Judo

Being a Combat Sambo champion is much higher achievement than judo black belt

Actually in post USSR countries they are usually trained together.
I did both judo (just 3 months) and Combat Sambo (7 years).

 

[Curly Peibce]

Karo was good.