Someone define 'out of competition'

Many PEDs that are used for cutting weight are banned in and out of competition.

Couldn't cocaine be considered an aide for cutting weight during training camp if not a performance enhancer that far out from the fight?
 
Post Crisis said:
Kinda bs how training camps are exempt from being in-competition.
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Perhaps you don't know what a competition is. The time between a fighter's fights (fights are competitions) is clearly out-of-competition, whether they spend the time training or sitting on their ass.
 
popinjay10 said:
Coke is a stimulant. Stimulants are performance enhancing. Ever tried to fight a meth head?
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Caffeine is a stimulant too.

Stimulants are performance enhancing. Ever fight someone tripping on coffee? Ban morning coffees for fighters.

Give it up, haters. Jones was partying hard in Brazil from the looks of it and that's really all there is to this.

If anything, neglecting his training and hurting his body with drugs and partying atr the peak of his preparation for the fight makes his performance even more impressive.
 
Spinoza said:
Perhaps you don't know what a competition is. The time between a fighter's fights (fights are competitions) is clearly out-of-competition, whether they spend the time training or sitting on their ass.
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I fucking get it. Your rationale still leaves much to be desired. It absolutely matters what drugs you're putting into yourself during a fight camp. The whole situation is questionable. That means debatable or arguable.
 
Post Crisis said:
Kinda bs how training camps are exempt from being in-competition.
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NO not at all.

Everything that is going to give a fighter unfair advantages is banned in and out of competition. They can't drink coffee before a fight. They can during training. They can't smoke weed before a fight, they can in training. Cocaine is no different. It's not a PED.
 
adam888 said:
Cocaine not particularly addictive?

And you are calling him misinformed?
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"According to estimates from the National Comorbidity Surveys of the early 1990s (NCS), when the NCS study sample has been restricted to individuals who have just started to use cocaine, the estimated risk of becoming a case of cocaine dependence is about 5% per year for the first 1
 
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These things are all well defined. If you want to know what is banned, instead of arguing wether substance "A" is or isn't performance enhancing, just google the WADA banned list.

Oh, and please, can we use "banned" when we mean "banned", and use "illegal" when we mean "illegal"? It may seem nit-picky, but it's an important distinction.
 
hto63 said:
NO not at all.

Everything that is going to give a fighter unfair advantages is banned in and out of competition. They can't drink coffee before a fight. They can during training. They can't smoke weed before a fight, they can in training. Cocaine is no different. It's not a PED.
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I'm not entirely sure anybody knows the full effects and benefits of any illegal drug (even reason ly well researched ones) so I can't speak to that, but I'll accept this information at face value. If people are sure it doesn't provide a competitive advantage during training, I'm skeptical but I'll buy it.
 
How could cocaine be a performance enhancing if it was used three or four days before a fight?

You doofs do realize cocaine metabolizes in your system very rapidly, as compared to opiates or benzos or steroids, and that there is no way Jones was getting any kind of benefit from using cocaine two days before a fight, much less any more than three days.
 
SingerAuto said:
How could cocaine be a performance enhancing if it was used three or four days before a fight?

You doofs do realize cocaine metabolizes in your system very rapidly, as compared to opiates or benzos or steroids, and that there is no way Jones was getting any kind of benefit from using cocaine two days before a fight, much less any more than three days.
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It would rather be performance degrading, due to depleted levels of dopamine and norepinephrine. A cocaine hang over isn't fun.
 
flanellograf said:
That's probably life long stats. After 2 years it's about 5%.

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v30/n5/full/1300681a.html
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Great to use all of the statistics.

Do you have any "real life" experience in and around the world of cocaine?

In and around rich people in and around the world of cocaine?

If so....then those statistics are load of crap.

People don't go to rehab because they snorted coke "a couple of times".

Len Bias wasn't buying coke for the first time (as was attempted to be put forth)
You don't buy a 1/2 ounce of coke on your first purchase.

Don Rogers (Cleveland Browns)........you don't die of an OD on the night before your wedding 'cause it's the first time you did coke (as was portrayed)

Michael Irvin........didn't just do coke a couple of times before he was busted.

The list could go into the 1000's of pro athletes, celebrities, etc.
 
flanellograf said:
That's probably life long stats. After 2 years it's about 5%.

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v30/n5/full/1300681a.html
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Honest Question....

How many years do you think Jones has been using coke? Just your best guess since it is all speculation.

My guess is he has been around it (exposed to it) and used it for a reasonable time before he became champion (maybe a year or two?) and now that he has been champ for almost 4 years......giving him the financial ability to become addicted.
 
as recreational drugs arent on wada tests it appears nsac fucked up by testing for them out of competition

it suprises me they ever released that he failed a test that they werent allowed to administer in the first place

they were powerless to ban him from competing
they cant give him a ban for so many months now

it would appear wada who are the so called experts on these matters consider recreational drugs not to be performance enhancing whilst training therefore no bans if using out of competition

whilst you cant fight high or drunk
who are we or nsac to judge a guys partying ways


it does seem a little strange that you can act like tyrone biggums 48 weeks a year and just stay off the coke for fight week and everythings fine
 
adam888 said:
Honest Question....

How many years do you think Jones has been using coke? Just your best guess since it is all speculation.

My guess is he has been around it (exposed to it) and used it for a reasonable time before he became champion (maybe a year or two?) and now that he has been champ for almost 4 years......giving him the financial ability to become addicted.
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He is certainly in a monetary position where it's possible for him to become addicted. But to be truly, physically, addicted he would have to use it pretty much daily as the half-life of cocaine is roughly one hour. And to be addicted at a level where it becomes a serious issue, there would probably have been other signs (and no, idk if him being a troll/dick sometimes really shows anything one way or another).
What's more likely is that he is a habitual user, but perhaps on weekends or whenever he parties. There is a reason for why it is such a famous party drug.
 
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adam888 said:
Great to use all of the statistics.

Do you have any "real life" experience in and around the world of cocaine?

In and around rich people in and around the world of cocaine?

If so....then those statistics are load of crap.

People don't go to rehab because they snorted coke "a couple of times".

Len Bias wasn't buying coke for the first time (as was attempted to be put forth)
You don't buy a 1/2 ounce of coke on your first purchase.

Don Rogers (Cleveland Browns)........you don't die of an OD on the night before your wedding 'cause it's the first time you did coke (as was portrayed)

Michael Irvin........didn't just do coke a couple of times before he was busted.

The list could go into the 1000's of pro athletes, celebrities, etc.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Obviously the more you use a drug the greater the chances are of becoming addicted. And yes, I've been around drugs pretty much all my life, and I for instance know people who have died of heroin etc, so I'm also anecdotally speaking well aware of how different drugs work.
 
flanellograf said:
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Obviously the more you use a drug the greater the chances are of becoming addicted. And yes, I've been around drugs pretty much all my life, and I for instance know people who have died of heroin etc, so I'm also anecdotally speaking well aware of how different drugs work.
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Thanks for honest answers.

I am 50 and grew up in the late 70's college in the 80's in California. Grew up among professional athletes (I played at UCLA) and famous musicians and actors. I have done my fair share.........and as you probably know.......cocaine is and always has been the drug of elites. Also you must know that while physically, cocaine, may not be as addictive as other substances.......psychologically it is one of THE most addictive. The need to have it becomes part of a culture of acceptance more than a physical addiction/craving to it.

It brings the ladies......the entourage.......the acceptance of others......the feeling of power.....of elitism. Jones reached that pinnacle 4 years ago.....they put him smack in the middle of that world. As a young guy......guaranteed.....his decision making skills are severely lacking. Cocaine also gives one a feeling of superiority and a feeling of being untouchable. Cocaine can also be a very secretive drug......private and personal......in the last decade or so.....as public use is frowned upon (take a note Mr. Manziel). So Jones may have been doing a bump here or there almost daily while thinking he had the drug completely under control. All the while the drug may have been controlling him. His actions, tweets, etc. certainly could show a pattern of an addicted person. Addicted to the fame, the fortune, the lifestyle.

While he most certainly knew he had to keep off it during fight week it very well may have aided him immensely in his weight cutting and weight maintenance. After all, we all have been saying how BIG a guy Jones is for only weighing 205 on weigh-in day?
 
Post Crisis said:
Kinda bs how training camps are exempt from being in-competition.
Click to expand...

Uh oh.... you're getting dangerously close to understanding the darker side of this sport. Please step back, sir. Everything is fine. Nothing to see here.
 
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