Some very old muay thai vs kyokushin videos

Let's fist talk about gloves and famous there talks about padding.
I think after few hits with modern 18 oz sparring gloves from 170 + lbs guy you might think otherwise.
And first stuff that protects hands are wrappings.
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Plus if about horsehair gloves vs foam padding, let's OK, atfer 100 + full power blows horsehair gloves I think hurts more.
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Otherwise: foam gloves might be watchable in Inoque and some other's fights, appears even solar plexus blows might work with a glance.
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One of best examples: 1 st Sinitsin vs Holbek fight ( second he had lost ), or this one from most effective stoppages that achieved Inoque. If no HW and no head blow, deep KO might not happen. LOL.
 
Inoque fight one user had posted here, this another I had posted. If not HW = no single blow KO power. Especially if not head blow or liver shot. LOL.
 
I definitely will not waste time to post again some links posted buy other users or me, I'm not paid personnel here.
 
+ I had posted barehands example for these blows but not enough famous coach he was, so not worth to watch too. Despite guy after reached retirement age still looks that was able to charge clients.
0 secrets, just noname.............
 
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i'm giving you time references, back then its very likely that kyokushin also still had a lot of it's standing grappling taught considering its founder was supposedly using standing grappling to wrestle bulls to the ground...thus karate back then would have been pretty strong in the clinch.

So some background:

Mas Oyama was a black belt in Judo, and training partner of Masahiko Kimura.

1st fight in the video is Rawee Dechachai vs Kenji Kurosaki, it took place in 1964 (although 1963 is a frequently cited, and wrong, year given)

It was the third and final fight of a contest between 3 kyokushin fighters and 3 nak muays, it was the only fight of the night where the kyokushin fighter lost. Kenji Kurosaki founded the Mejiro Gym, and is indirectly responsible for K1 rules kickboxing and the founding of the 'dutch style; due to his friendship and collaboration with fellow Oyama black belt, Jon Bluming.

That event consisted largely of the Muay Thai fighters getting thrown about like ragdolls, unable to do much about it. That being said, the fights were contested under specifically requested modified rules, as Muay Thai limits what throws can be used expressly to distance muay thai clinching from Judo. Anti-Japanese sentiment/push back from Japanese occupation during WW2.

Kyokushin has a lot of grappling due to what I mentioned earlier, Oyama being a black belt in Judo and having a friendship with Kimura. Like Kimura, a lot of the training stories about Oyama are simply make believe, Japanese machismo. Oyama was very big on throws, and yes, they were a feature of competition, and still are. It looked MORE like Judo back then, due to the rules of kyokusin not being completely set in stone. I mentioned earlier that Kurosaki founded Mejiro Gym, and pushed kickboxing forward, and that is because he disagreed with the movement towards knockdown rules.

Oyama-throw.jpg

kyokushin-self-defense.png


I think it is fair to say that a lot of this is different now (like when karate guys LOVE to inform me that elbows are taught in shotokan, but you'll never actually see someone competently use them from that martial art). Whether or not it's common place now though has very little relevance on 60 year old fights.

2nd fight is Tadashi Sawamura vs Samarn sor Adisorn. Sawamura would later go on to have many... many... MANY fixed fights of hilarious quality. I would call it on par with professional wrestling, but at least professional wrestlers sell the move like they're being hit for real.
 
So some background:

Mas Oyama was a black belt in Judo, and training partner of Masahiko Kimura.

1st fight in the video is Rawee Dechachai vs Kenji Kurosaki, it took place in 1964 (although 1963 is a frequently cited, and wrong, year given)

It was the third and final fight of a contest between 3 kyokushin fighters and 3 nak muays, it was the only fight of the night where the kyokushin fighter lost. Kenji Kurosaki founded the Mejiro Gym, and is indirectly responsible for K1 rules kickboxing and the founding of the 'dutch style; due to his friendship and collaboration with fellow Oyama black belt, Jon Bluming.

That event consisted largely of the Muay Thai fighters getting thrown about like ragdolls, unable to do much about it. That being said, the fights were contested under specifically requested modified rules, as Muay Thai limits what throws can be used expressly to distance muay thai clinching from Judo. Anti-Japanese sentiment/push back from Japanese occupation during WW2.

Kyokushin has a lot of grappling due to what I mentioned earlier, Oyama being a black belt in Judo and having a friendship with Kimura. Like Kimura, a lot of the training stories about Oyama are simply make believe, Japanese machismo. Oyama was very big on throws, and yes, they were a feature of competition, and still are. It looked MORE like Judo back then, due to the rules of kyokusin not being completely set in stone. I mentioned earlier that Kurosaki founded Mejiro Gym, and pushed kickboxing forward, and that is because he disagreed with the movement towards knockdown rules.

Oyama-throw.jpg

kyokushin-self-defense.png


I think it is fair to say that a lot of this is different now (like when karate guys LOVE to inform me that elbows are taught in shotokan, but you'll never actually see someone competently use them from that martial art). Whether or not it's common place now though has very little relevance on 60 year old fights.

2nd fight is Tadashi Sawamura vs Samarn sor Adisorn. Sawamura would later go on to have many... many... MANY fixed fights of hilarious quality. I would call it on par with professional wrestling, but at least professional wrestlers sell the move like they're being hit for real.
oh snap, this is from that same event. know where the footage of the other two fights can be found?
 
So some background:

Mas Oyama was a black belt in Judo, and training partner of Masahiko Kimura.

1st fight in the video is Rawee Dechachai vs Kenji Kurosaki, it took place in 1964 (although 1963 is a frequently cited, and wrong, year given)

It was the third and final fight of a contest between 3 kyokushin fighters and 3 nak muays, it was the only fight of the night where the kyokushin fighter lost. Kenji Kurosaki founded the Mejiro Gym, and is indirectly responsible for K1 rules kickboxing and the founding of the 'dutch style; due to his friendship and collaboration with fellow Oyama black belt, Jon Bluming.

That event consisted largely of the Muay Thai fighters getting thrown about like ragdolls, unable to do much about it. That being said, the fights were contested under specifically requested modified rules, as Muay Thai limits what throws can be used expressly to distance muay thai clinching from Judo. Anti-Japanese sentiment/push back from Japanese occupation during WW2.

Kyokushin has a lot of grappling due to what I mentioned earlier, Oyama being a black belt in Judo and having a friendship with Kimura. Like Kimura, a lot of the training stories about Oyama are simply make believe, Japanese machismo. Oyama was very big on throws, and yes, they were a feature of competition, and still are. It looked MORE like Judo back then, due to the rules of kyokusin not being completely set in stone. I mentioned earlier that Kurosaki founded Mejiro Gym, and pushed kickboxing forward, and that is because he disagreed with the movement towards knockdown rules.

Oyama-throw.jpg

kyokushin-self-defense.png


I think it is fair to say that a lot of this is different now (like when karate guys LOVE to inform me that elbows are taught in shotokan, but you'll never actually see someone competently use them from that martial art). Whether or not it's common place now though has very little relevance on 60 year old fights.

2nd fight is Tadashi Sawamura vs Samarn sor Adisorn. Sawamura would later go on to have many... many... MANY fixed fights of hilarious quality. I would call it on par with professional wrestling, but at least professional wrestlers sell the move like they're being hit for real.
/thread
 
oh snap, this is from that same event. know where the footage of the other two fights can be found?
So these two fights aren't from the same event, the Sawamura fight is a short while after. I've heard that second fight video in the compilation was in 1967, but I can't source it

You can find footage of Huafai Lukcontai's fight vs Akio Fujihara here but it is heavily edited down with japanese commentary from a dvd Fujihara produced (iirc):


At this moment in time no footage has surfaced of Tan Charan's fight with Tadashi Nakamura (not to be confused with Sawamura in that second fight), but he talks of the fight in his book 'The Human Face of Karate' - but I can't source it as I don't own it. I've reached out to Seido to see if anyone in the know can tell me more, but so far I've not received any word back.
 
.

Oyama-throw.jpg

kyokushin-self-defense.png


I think it is fair to say that a lot of this is different now .

Not really. WKF karate still has sweeps still in there. In fact, Aghaev uses them to such great effect that people think it detracts from true Karate.

Dolph Lundgren claims that sweeps are not longer part of main stream Kyokushin tourneys these days. So that has changed.
 
Not really. WKF karate still has sweeps still in there. In fact, Aghaev uses them to such great effect that people think it detracts from true Karate.

Aghaev is really good at them, however I was talking purely about kyokushin.
 
So some background:

Mas Oyama was a black belt in Judo, and training partner of Masahiko Kimura.

1st fight in the video is Rawee Dechachai vs Kenji Kurosaki, it took place in 1964 (although 1963 is a frequently cited, and wrong, year given)

It was the third and final fight of a contest between 3 kyokushin fighters and 3 nak muays, it was the only fight of the night where the kyokushin fighter lost. Kenji Kurosaki founded the Mejiro Gym, and is indirectly responsible for K1 rules kickboxing and the founding of the 'dutch style; due to his friendship and collaboration with fellow Oyama black belt, Jon Bluming.

That event consisted largely of the Muay Thai fighters getting thrown about like ragdolls, unable to do much about it. That being said, the fights were contested under specifically requested modified rules, as Muay Thai limits what throws can be used expressly to distance muay thai clinching from Judo. Anti-Japanese sentiment/push back from Japanese occupation during WW2.

Kyokushin has a lot of grappling due to what I mentioned earlier, Oyama being a black belt in Judo and having a friendship with Kimura. Like Kimura, a lot of the training stories about Oyama are simply make believe, Japanese machismo. Oyama was very big on throws, and yes, they were a feature of competition, and still are. It looked MORE like Judo back then, due to the rules of kyokusin not being completely set in stone. I mentioned earlier that Kurosaki founded Mejiro Gym, and pushed kickboxing forward, and that is because he disagreed with the movement towards knockdown rules.

Oyama-throw.jpg

kyokushin-self-defense.png


I think it is fair to say that a lot of this is different now (like when karate guys LOVE to inform me that elbows are taught in shotokan, but you'll never actually see someone competently use them from that martial art). Whether or not it's common place now though has very little relevance on 60 year old fights.

2nd fight is Tadashi Sawamura vs Samarn sor Adisorn. Sawamura would later go on to have many... many... MANY fixed fights of hilarious quality. I would call it on par with professional wrestling, but at least professional wrestlers sell the move like they're being hit for real.
MT striking just looks so much better from the first clips.

The RH speed and mechanics don't seem to have needed to change all that much in 60 years, while almost everything of the the Kyokushin looks nothing like it does today.
 
MT striking just looks so much better from the first clips.

The RH speed and mechanics don't seem to have needed to change all that much in 60 years, while almost everything of the the Kyokushin looks nothing like it does today.

Worth mentioning Muay Thai is a lot older than Kyokushin, which was still really being created at this time
 
Worth mentioning Muay Thai is a lot older than Kyokushin, which was still really being created at this time

Valid point.

I wish kyokushin would have kept (or started again) striking to the head.

That would have been a badass style.
 
Worth mentioning Muay Thai is a lot older than Kyokushin, which was still really being created at this time
I guess thinking about it, Japanese styles were more about unarmed combat as a last resort against armored opponents.
Like H2H training now, it's the stopgap to your second weapon so it was more of a priority than kicking an armored opponent. You can hyper extend and break joints or knock the wind out of them with a throw, but you can't punch them in the face, so that grappling skill set was(is) highly advanced.

So Kyokushin guys were better grapplers than the pure MT-well with sweeps-strikers.

Those round house kicks back in 1964 look pretty fucking fast hard and brutal. I'm not sure if I've ever seen old Japanese sparring clips with that level of technicality like the the old standing grappling.

You're right, MT just has that lineage for that skill set.

Looks snappy and brutal way back 55 years ago!
 
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