Some points on Silva-Sonnen I

[ovbious]

I've watched the fight live and was just as surprised as everyone else with the hail mary sub Silva managed to get. But I've always been surprised on how people talk about the fight, like it was a boring LnP with a sub in the end.

And I've rewatched the fight about a week ago to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks on me. It turned out to be an even better fight than I remembered. Here's some points I can say about it:

1) the fight was much more competitive than most people think.

Yeah, it was not a one sided LnP from rounds 1 to 5, like most sherdoggers say. Sonnen was also competitive standing, and Silva was really good from his guard. Anderson almost got the sub 3 or 4 times during the fight, and he got a lot of good punches and kicks while standing in the beggining of most rounds.

2) Sonnen was only winning by the 5th round because of the unified rules, cause he def took more damage in rounds 2, 3 and 4.

Like I've stated before, Silva was much more dangerous and closer to finish the fight on his back than Sonnen was from the top. And he did connected some shots at Sonnen that did hurt Chael a lot, punches and elbows that were really important for Silva to be able to turn the fight around in the end.

3) Chael beat Silva standing in rounds 1 and 5.

Some people say that Silva would always have the edge standing, but he did get rocked two or three times during those rounds. Sonnen went all in during first round, and he surprised Silva, who couldn't react at the beggining and also had problems during the fifth.

4) Sonnen didn't really make a "mistake", he just gassed during the 5th.

Chael took a LOT of damage during the 2-3-4 rounds, this along with his fast paced way of fighting got him tired during the 5th round. When he on a good position on top of Silva, he stopped to take a breath. And that's when Silva turned the fight around, getting the sub.


All in all, it was a really competitive fight, which is worth watching again. I think most people put it like it was much more simple, with a 5 rounds on LnP by Sonnen, who happened to be stupid enough to be subbed by the end.

 

[bmasters1993]

Sonnen lost focus. He said in an interview after that his mind was elsewhere. He was thinking about his late father, his family, what it would be like to be champion.

And then he realised that Anderson had been working the triangle for about 15 seconds

 

[BlastoiseDad]

I recall Anderson wobbling Chael with a standing reverse elbow somewhere in there... It was a pretty sweet fight

 

[tenniswhiz]

A few more points:

Sometimes a strong wrestler can "outstrike" an oustanding striker, because they surprise them with a punch when the striker is defending the TD.
Mir did that to Kongo, Randleman did that to Cro Cop, and Chael did that to Anderson. Even Cain/JDS 2 could be an example of that.
I don't really consider any of those big shots to be "outstriking", because the weaker striker just caught the better striker, it's not like they schooled them standing.

Hard to tell exactly what happened to Sonnen at the end.
According to the Gracie breakdown, Anderson landed a very solid punch from bottom which led to Chael moving his hand to protect himself from further damage, which led to a chance for Anderson to trap one arm. On top of that, Anderson had to do several things to go for the triangle, which Sonnen then defended, and Anderson converted to a triangle armbar. One can hardly use the term "hail mary" to describe all the steps that went into this process. IMO, a punch can be a hail mary because all you have to do is throw it, but a submission against someone who knows counters can never be called a hail mary.
According to Chael's book, he lost concentration for that one instant and paid for it.

 

[JamalRyback]

I have to say, you have a keen eye! Couldn't have said it better!

 

[bmasters1993]

I recall Anderson wobbling Chael with a standing reverse elbow somewhere in there... It was a pretty sweet fight

I remember that as well. Round 3 or 4 I think.

I think the combination of gassing and the cobwebs from the elbow are what caused Chaels loss of focus

 

[FishinWithFredo]

Point number 4 is incorrect. Silva rocked Chael with a punch from the bottom, breaking his posture and setting up the sub

that feel when you dont save gifs

 

[SocraticMethod]

Silva also had a setup for a heel hook at one point fairly early on in the fight, 2nd round maybe, but let it go. One of the guys who was over here watching is a BJJ guy and he was going nuts over it.

 

[bmasters1993]

I remember that Anderson also got top position on Chael and roughed him up.

Chael reversed but Anderson looked nasty during that short period

 

[Dart Feld]

Yeah, I always scratch my head when people say that Anderson planned to submit Chael in the 5th.

He had several unsuccessful sub attempts before the triangle armbar and he really was looking to land some fight ending blows in the first 4 rounds.

 

[bmasters1993]

Because it's so easy to focus in a 25 minute fight fighting at the pace Chael was, not to mention with that huge weight cut.

Sonnen gassed...

Like I said earlier, Chael gassing plus the elbow that wobbled him would have contributed to a loss of focus, which proved deadly against a guy as dangerous as Anderson

 

[Chas]

Not only was the fight exciting, but EVERYONE was rooting for Chael as Anderson had just come off the worst fight of his career vs. Demian Maia in Abu Dhabi, so that made it even more thrilling.

 

[TheProphetAxel]

Sonnen lost focus. He said in an interview after that his mind was elsewhere. He was thinking about his late father, his family, what it would be like to be champion.

And then he realised that Anderson had been working the triangle for about 15 seconds

I believe Anderson Whispered this in his ears during the triangle

 

[Sweating Bullet]

I will say that I am not an Anderson fan - I am still pissed off about the Maia fight and Leites fight

The most amazing thing about that fight is that it only took a 10 second opening for him to lock that triangle in after getting wailed on for 20 minutes.

 

[ovbious]

A few more points:

Sometimes a strong wrestler can "outstrike" an oustanding striker, because they surprise them with a punch when the striker is defending the TD.
Mir did that to Kongo, Randleman did that to Cro Cop, and Chael did that to Anderson. Even Cain/JDS 2 could be an example of that.
I don't really consider any of those big shots to be "outstriking", because the weaker striker just caught the better striker, it's not like they schooled them standing.

Hard to tell exactly what happened to Sonnen at the end.
According to the Gracie breakdown, Anderson landed a very solid punch from bottom which led to Chael moving his hand to protect himself from further damage, which led to a chance for Anderson to trap one arm. On top of that, Anderson had to do several things to go for the triangle, which Sonnen then defended, and Anderson converted to a triangle armbar. One can hardly use the term "hail mary" to describe all the steps that went into this process. IMO, a punch can be a hail mary because all you have to do is throw it, but a submission against someone who knows counters can never be called a hail mary.
According to Chael's book, he lost concentration for that one instant and paid for it.

Well said.

It's really hard to point out the exact reason that lead to the sub.

To me, it seemed like he stopped to take a breath aftar all the damage he took and non-stop offense.

Point number 4 is incorrect. Silva rocked Chael with a punch from the bottom, breaking his posture and setting up the sub

that feel when you dont save gifs

You're right in some way, cause Silva rocked him more than once with elbows/punches from his back. Sonnen had a nasty cut because of that.

But prior to the sub, I remember Chael sitting and, intead of keep GnP, taking a breath. I mean, he was tired and hurt.

Silva also had a setup for a heel hook at one point fairly early on in the fight, 2nd round maybe, but let it go. One of the guys who was over here watching is a BJJ guy and he was going nuts over it.

Yeah. Silva also almost got an armbar and a kimura during the fight.

He was anything but helpless on his back.

 

[ovbious]

The most amazing thing about that fight is that it only took a 10 second opening for him to lock that triangle in after getting wailed on for 20 minutes.

Sorry, but these are the comments I can't understand.

It's not like Silva was helpless during the first 4 rounds. He def lost the first, but he had done a lot more damage on Sonnen before the 5th round than the opposite. Both standing and from his back.

Also, he almost got the sub before, not like it was the only moment he got close to finish the fight.

I have to say, you have a keen eye! Couldn't have said it better!

Thanks, dude.

 

[TH1RTE3N]

The retards that say Anderson planned a late sub must have also missed Anderson getting owned by Azeredo, Chonan, Takase, Lutter (mount with punches before he gassed), Maia landing on him in the last 2 rounds, etc...

Anderson is far from invincible and far from p4p.

Jon Jones has been in bad spots for seconds out of his entire career. Anderson has been in so many and for long durations. He's been outclassed plenty.

There has been a lot of valid points made in this thread but you're reaching into Silva hatred territory. Especially mentioning a punch or two that was landed on Silva in the Maia fight. I still don't know why people mention the Lutter fight either since he reversed full mount and any top position Lutter had was all for nothing.

 

[Stan]

Don't you realize Sonnen's piss test came up dirty for that fight and he was suspended because of it? His testosterone levels were skyrocketing.

 

[Dart Feld]

There has been a lot of valid points made in this thread but you're reaching into Silva hatred territory. Especially mentioning a punch or two that was landed on Silva in the Maia fight. I still don't know why people mention the Lutter fight either since he reversed full mount and any top position Lutter had was all for nothing.

Lutter lost mount by going for a sloppy armbar.

 

[boss429]

Point number 4 is incorrect. Silva rocked Chael with a punch from the bottom, breaking his posture and setting up the sub

that feel when you dont save gifs

This is true. I've watched the fight at least 30 times it's one of my favorite fights ever.

Something else I noticed that most people seem to have missed is Chael had an arm triangle locked in but used it to attempt to pass to mount, as soon as he lets it go you see Anderson take a huge breath followed by a couple more, I believe it was in the 5th but might have been the fourth.