Some help on Deadlift lockout assisstance required

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by SmashiusClay, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    The last two weeks I've failed on deadlifts that felt great coming off the floor but stalled just above knee height, so I'm looking to put in some lockout assisstance to my routine. The first thing that comes to mind is rack pulls and GMs but I'm not entirely sure that these are the best assisstance or when to incorporate them into my routine.
    At the moment my routine looks like this:

    Monday-Pull:
    Deadlift: warm up set of 5 followed by heavy singles
    SLDLs: 3x6-8
    Pull-ups: 3x5
    Shrugs: 3x6-8

    Wednesday-Press:
    Bench: 5x5
    Overhead Press: 3x6-8
    Skullcrushers: 3x6-8

    Friday-Squat:
    Back squat: 5x5
    Front squat:3x6-8

    All workouts also include ab and grip work.

    Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  2. Barut

    Barut Banned Banned

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    I'd put some dimmel deads on your squat day. It only works the lockout and really helps with hip drive. Also, you're moving some pretty decent weight now on DL. You might want to only pull heavy once every two weeks rather than every week. Work on speed and form on the other week. I substitute powercleans for DL's on my non-heavy pull week. Just my .02
     
  3. Aldaron

    Aldaron White Belt

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    Heavyish GMs with focus on hip drive have helped me in the past. I'd probably put them on your squat day or if you feel too toasted after squats maybe substitue them instead of SLDL on your pull day.

    I have also found that not deadlifting every week but doing powewrcleans/high pulls instead beneficial (I attribute this to putting about 100lbs on my PR in about 10 months).
     
  4. gruesome

    gruesome Green Belt

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    just replace the full range deads with rack pull singles for a couple weeks.
     
  5. datadog

    datadog Blue Belt

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    You asked for any advice, so here goes:

    First as said above would be Good Mornings. The other one may sound silly, but where are bent-over rows or upright-rows in the routine.

    When I do deads [new at deads but going up 10 a week till my grip gives out, lol] I feel it a lot right behind the shoulders and in my ribs. I'm guessing I have something too weak in the supporters, but for now I'll live. Anywise, so what I found is that wide lat / rear deltoid work seems to be big for my deads.

    Then again, I could just be feeling whatever is weakest and you'll be fine without them.
     
  6. Smitty.Diesel

    Smitty.Diesel White Belt

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    To bring up the lockout on your deads, I would suggest:

    1. Rack Pulls
    2. Heavy Shrugs
    2. 45 deg Shrugs
    3. Power Cleans
    4. Band assisted (band up) Deads
    5. RDL's
    6. Snatch Grip / Sumo Stance RDL's
     
  7. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

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    Deads off blocks, power shrugs and deads with chains will help you
     
  8. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If you have access to bands, I think they're specifically for that.

    I don't know, though, I've never used bands. My weak points are never at full extension and I don't compete in lifting.
     
  9. niagareven

    niagareven Blue Belt

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    Bands will help a lot. They teach you to pull fast because as the bar gets higher, the band gets tigther. If you pull too slow, you won't be able to lock it out because of the tension from the bands.

    Reverse bands could help also because it helps you get the weight off the floor, and then will feel heavier as you get closer to lockout.


    Deads off blocks won't help him. Doing them off blocks strengthen your off the floor strength. So if he switches and starts doing them off plates, the bar will have to travel a longer distance, which will make him start getting stuck either a little lower, or he'll get stuck at the same spot and it will be even harder to lock it out since he ahd to use more energy to move the bar more.
     
  10. gruesome

    gruesome Green Belt

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    never heard of that one, cool.
     
  11. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.

    I think I'm going to try using goodmornings on my squat day (should probably do them anyway) and put in some rack pulls to my deadlift. I may well try pulling heavy every other week and doing powercleans inbetween.
     
  12. CarnalSalvation

    CarnalSalvation Trying to make a Milankey

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    I think he meant off blocks as opposed to a rack pull. If you set the plates on bars/boxes the weight is distrubuted on the surface more like a normal DL, as opposed to the weight resting on the pins/bar with a rack pull. It's a better approximation in some ways.

    I just want to say three things:
    1. If you're a conventional deadlifter, you're gonna stall around the knees if you're doing the lift right. You might be running into the sticking point called "the weight is too heavy".
    2. You can never have to much speed off the floor. Even if your start feels good it's possible that your sticking point is caused by not getting enough speed off the floor, or letting your hips get too high early on, and pulling from a 1-2" elevation is great for that IMO.
    3. Powercleans are a queer ass way to improve your DL.
     
  13. rickdog

    rickdog Purple Belt

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    How long have you been doing deadlifts? The reason I ask is because it seems like you are constantly hitting a new record with them. You might just simply need to take a couple weeks off and let your body recover. Deads can be taxing on the CNS, especially if you went from never doing them to maxing out on them all the time (I am not sure this is the case),however it this is the case, take it easy for a bit.
     
  14. TheNerdKing

    TheNerdKing <img src="http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4586/

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    From personal experience I have found that the best way to work through a sticking point is to take a weight I can pull for a solid triple and blast out doubles as fast as possible.

    That is, if you can triple 405. Load up 405 and do doubles. But make the doubles as fast of pulls as possible. Take time to set properly inbetween reps but make each pull very very fast. Get set, put some tension on your hams and then hit it HARD. Drive you hips down and get them low, bring your shoulders back up and drive hard. As the bar gets to knee height, pull it into you and drive your hips up and through it and finish the rep.

    Really work on blasting as hard as possible just before you normally get stuck and continuing until you are locked out.

    The extra focus of doing deads this way worked wonders for me.
     
  15. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    Thanks for that Carnal, I'll try to really concentrate on getting my initial speed up, I still see working specifically on my lockout as being beneficial as when intitiating a takedown I'm effectively working from around lockout. This may well strike everyone as some retarded reasoning but I see it as making working the lockout very important for my mma.

    Rickdog - I started doing deadlifts at the end of last summer, around september I think. I should probably stop looking for things to solve when I'm already managing to add 10lbs a week, but it does frustrate me to think that if I sorted out a sticking point I could be lfting even more. After all going after my bench sticking point helped me enormously.
     
  16. rickdog

    rickdog Purple Belt

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    10 lbs a week is excellent man. Keep up the hard work.

    Like I said earlier, maybe your body just needs a week or two to rest and recover from making all these new gains. It's up to you. There has been alot of great tips throughout this thread. One of them ought to do the trick for you.
     
  17. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    I have a few competitions coming up so for each of those I'll take a week away from tyhe weights so hopefully that will help me recover. This thread has been very helpful and I'll just keep trying ideas from it until I find the combination which drive me forward most efficiently.
     
  18. Fedorable

    Fedorable 1/1024th Mod

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    Remember that Italian guy with the cow? Anyways, going up gradually each week isn't the best way to get stronger. Experiment with other forms of periodization.
     
  19. Fedorable

    Fedorable 1/1024th Mod

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    What is wrong with the power clean? What is the difference between a power clean and a clean and jerk?
     
  20. niagareven

    niagareven Blue Belt

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    He didnt say there was anything wrong with powercleans. He just said that it's not a good way to improve your deadlift.

    A powerclean you just do a clean, but catch the bar high enough that you don't have to squat it up. A clean and jerk is where you do a full clean (catch it lower and squat the weight back up) and then do a jerk to lift it over your head..
     

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